We had a discussion last year on PaddleWise about the tragic deaths of "bear guru", Timothy Treadwell and the woman who was with him, Amie Huguenard. This article contains some disturbing new info. Turns out it may have been less tragic for him but more so for her. It appears the guy wanted to die-by-bear but I guess he didn't want to die alone. http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/6029929p-5919386c.html Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius_at_worldnet.att.net> > Jackie: > > Although it seems by the article that she was duped by this so called "bear guru", I just can't help it, and forgive me if I sound callous but to some degree they both got what they came looking for. < "Duped" wasn't my word, it's the title of the article. I also wouldn't say she went looking to be eaten by a bear. But I get your point. She was 37 years old and, for some reason, the right alarms didn't go off soon enough. She put a lot of faith in a guy who turned out to be a real nut job. Reading the article sort of reminded me of Don Starkell and Victoria Jason and their trip together, her only having his self-inflated description of his expertise to rely on. Fortunately, Victoria Jason survived her ordeal (didn't complete the trip with Starkell) and lived to learn from her experience (see "Kabloona in a Yellow Kayak" by Victoria Jason). I think both women may have been caught up in the celebrity of their "guide" and the exciting prospects of an adventure. One lived and one didn't. No doubt Jason had the necessary survival instincts. jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie, I'm not sure if this qualifies as suicide or murder. In any event, it is a real tragedy that she died. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 22 Jan 2005 at 10:40, Jackie Myers wrote: > No doubt Jason had the necessary survival instincts. When dealing with Starkell, the necessary survival instinct is minimal common sense. Jason certainly showed some grit when she was on her own. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Myers" <jackie_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Woman who died with 'bear guru' was duped" > "Duped" wasn't my word, it's the title of the article. Jackie: I realize that. No harm meant. > I also wouldn't say she went looking to be eaten by a bear. But I get > your point. She was 37 years old and, for some reason, the right alarms > didn't go off soon enough. She put a lot of faith in a guy who turned > out to be a real nut job. agreed!!!!! Although if there was a sat phone there as stated, and she was concerned, all she needed to do was call for the air taxi and say "I want out now". The Ding-Dong bell should have gone off earlier. I don't care how cute or pure as the driven snow it seems, you just don't mess with wild bears for any reason at all. > Reading the article sort of reminded me of Don Starkell yes, entertaining reading, but he is also a few cards short of a full deck IMO. In the Paddle to the Amazon the part along the Mississippi I don't see a problem. A worthy endeavour in it self. The agony of dragging the canoe along the shallows in Mexico should have been enough to ring a bell, hellooooo!!!! but a couple of Gringos hitting Central and South America at the time in history they did was asking for trouble. Talk about fodder for the wolves!!!! what I mean, I myself having been born and bred down there and having some ability and familiarity with habits, and inclinations of pissed off uneducated folks with guns would not find much that could motivate me to attempt anything like that. Never mind the natural/geographical hazards. I am surprised all he lost were his fingers after an attempt like he did in the Arctic. Thankfully his partner had the sense to depart when she still could. It is my recollection that sadly she succumbed to cancer shortly after. don't let Darwin get you quite just yet. michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Steve Holtzman" > I'm not sure if this qualifies as suicide or murder. On the part of Hugenard, I'd say probably lack of sound judgement. On Treadwell's part, I'd say lack of sound mind. So I'm not sure either murder or suicide fits. > In any event, it is a real tragedy that she died. I agree. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Michael Daly" <mikedaly_at_magma.ca> wrote: >When dealing with Starkell, the necessary survival instinct is >minimal common sense. Jason certainly showed some grit when she was >on her own. Back in the early nineties, a work colleague and I were at an outdoor rec. show, doing rolls, assisted rescues and such-like demos in a large portable tank to entertain the crowds. In between shows, we worked our companybs booth. Our neighbour was Don Starkell, who was there selling copies of b Paddle to the Amazonb and promoting his then upcoming Arctic kayak trip. In the course of conversation, it came out that Don couldnbt roll, and didnbt know how to do any self-rescue. My buddy and I offered to take him out gratis and teach him at least a paddle float rescue. He declined, explaining he wouldnbt need such skills, since he "didnbt plan to capsize." (Does anyone ever plan to capsize, except in rescue practise?) Funny thing is, Ibve heard Don interviewed on radio, even after his various largely self-inflicted misadventures, and if you donbt know anything about kayaking and the details of his trips, you get the impression of a merely charmingly eccentric and brave man. Ibm all for eccentricity b itbs the eccentrics who challenge social strictures and create more latitude for all of us. But therebs a difference between risking your own life and persuading others who are putting their trust in you to risk theirs. Paddling in the Artic a few years later, we also met Victoria Jason, who was kayaking on her own by that point. She was one together paddler b covering more miles per day than we were, cheerful, personable, and wise in judgement. Philip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie: Although it seems by the article that she was duped by this so called "bear guru", I just can't help it, and forgive me if I sound callous but to some degree they both got what they came looking for. There are some basic things you don't do in life without some serious consequences. IE,You don't point a gun at someone unless your intention is to kill them. You don't drive drunk unless you want to kill yourself and others. You don't weld on a used gas tank, and you don't mess around with wild animals with big teeth and claws. Just think of it, if your average house cat was the size of a bull mastiff you would not keep him around to long either unless you were a couple of saucers short of a full set. There is a reason nature/god/evolution or what ever you want to call it you put fear in our repertoire of emotions. To keep us alive. If we disregard, or are oblivious of it we will pay the price. Sadly it is a human life at stake. And she paid the price for ignoring real issues. He knew what he was doing, so I don't feel sorry for him at all. Though from the reference to his past drug use I would not be surprised if the lights were on but no one was home. So long as we keep putting a "Bamby" twist on nature Darwin will keep reminding us of the facts. ok I'm off the soapbox. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Myers" <jackie_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] "Woman who died with 'bear guru' was duped" > We had a discussion last year on PaddleWise about the tragic > deaths of "bear guru", Timothy Treadwell and the woman who > was with him, Amie Huguenard. This article contains some > disturbing new info. Turns out it may have been less tragic > for him but more so for her. It appears the guy wanted > to die-by-bear but I guess he didn't want to die alone. > > http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/6029929p-5919386c.html > > Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Michael, Saturday, January 22, 2005, 9:12:11 AM, you wrote: [snip] > So long as we keep putting a "Bamby" twist on nature Darwin will > keep reminding us of the facts. Well said! At her age, and assuming she was of relatively sound mind, unless she was under hypnosis or some mysterious spell woven by Treadwell, she too has to bear some responsibility for her ultimate fate in a situation that should have been obvious to anyone to be potentially - even likely considering Treadwell's methods - lethal. The writer of the article did mention that he felt she was fairly gullible, but even so, when dealing with the possibility of coming face to face with so many bears, and in the way that Treadwell was known for, just how gullible must one be to go along with such an adventure? An unfortunate tragedy regardless, and unfortunately tragic for the bear that was killed as a result of this incident as well. Treadwell may have "gotten what he wanted" in some sort of twisted way, but considering his professed love of the bears, can his spirit really be happy about what happened to the bear as well? Learning from hindsight is only practical for us if we live to do better the next time around. -- Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I recall the incident, and I've read a few articles on it and the posts that have appeared on this forum. And one issue keeps coming back to me. If Treadwill was such a huge supporter of Bears, it would seem to me that, for the good of the bears "reputation", for the good of his chosen field of work, for his colleagues, and for the continuation of people financially supporting his work and philosophies, then the last thing he'd want is for he or anyone else to be attacked by a bear. That attack seems to render all his work meaningless (maybe an overstatement, but you get the point). So, if he truly wanted to "check out" by bear attack, then it seems to illegitimatize his work (well, at least "his" dedication and motivation for his work), and substantiate the claims that he was off his rocker. At least, in my feeble mind it does. After all, what engineer hopes his bridge falls down, or what software developer wishes for bugs, etc? Just rambles.... Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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