I think some inadvertent misinformation has been posted here on lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion batteries do not contain metallic lithium unless they are severely mischarged. Rather, it is __lithium__batteries which contain metallic lithium, and which are a severe fire hazard if punctured. Lithium batteries are not rechargeable. The VHF handheld radios which have been discussed here recently all use __lithium ion__ batteries, and are about as safe as NiCad or NiMH batteries. Unless they are severely mis-charged, they should not produce any metallic lithium and therefore are incapable of burning. Like any rechargeable battery, if they are recharged extremely rapidly and allowed to overcharge, they may vent caustic chemicals, or generate enough heat to start a fire in other materials. But, they are not themselves highly likely to catch fire. Here is one of several links I Googled up which distinguish these two batteries: http://www.allegromicro.com/techpub2/cadex/index341.htm This distinction, between lithium (an element) and lithium ions (the combined form of lithium found when it interacts with other substances) is not generally understood by many who write "warnings" you will see on the Internet. Caveat emptor. -- Dave Kruger Just a long-time chemist *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Tord Eriksson" <tord_at_tord.nu> wrote: > In short: > > You should never leave a charger unattended, no matter what you are > charging, but of course we all do that, once in awhile. Say you charge > your phone over night, your cordless screw driver might also get > charged overnight - to be fresh and ready next morning, et cetera. > But there are dangers involved! > > I am not a chemist, but have seen what can happen! > > Seems there are issues with both lithium ion batteries and Lithium Polymer > batteries, no matter if the lithium is in ion form or not! Tord, thanks very much for carefully documenting the greater hazards of Li-Po batteries, relative to standard lithium ion batteries. I always learn from exchanges like this, and your careful work on this most recent post has accomplished that. The problems with standard (i.e., non Li-Po) lithium ion batteries remain in the same league as NiCad or NiMH battteries, in my opinion. As with any device employing high-energy density material, there is substantial potential for an unfortunate accident. This is not a reason to abandon their appropriate use. I'm keeping my standard lithium ion battery, and I plan not to abuse it. It is a risk I have decided to accept. OTOH, the cautions you cite on Li-Po batteries, particularly those from the AMA, will keep me from owning one of those until the problems are worked out (if that happens). Regards, -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 9 Apr 2005 at 21:34, Dave Kruger wrote: > Here is one of several links I Googled up which distinguish these two > batteries: http://www.allegromicro.com/techpub2/cadex/index341.htm Very useful link, Dave. Now I understand why they don't make rechargeable lithium batteries in standard forms (difference in voltages aside). I wish they'd make new standard forms for Li batteries, though, so I could buy a widget and then choose to get a generic lithium battery instead of being locked into a specific manufacturer's version. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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