The following paragraph is excerpted from the most recent issue of Practical Sailor (the marine equivalent of consumer reports): "West Marine's vice president of product development told us that the company has recent-ly been redoubling its quality control efforts. After recent in-house tests of waterproof VHFs showed a 33% failure rate, Hawley said West took the following steps: 1. notified all buyers of VHF radios that these products may not be waterproof; 2. changed signs in the stores to de-emphasize waterproofness; 3. insert-ed notices in the remaining radios to alert customers to the company's test findings; 4. changed informa-tion on the company's website to indicate that these radios might fail; 5. offered free waterproof bags to any customer requesting one; 6. stopped buying radios from a par-ticular supplier even after that com-pany made some improvements; 7. shared the test results with all their VHF vendors; 8. instituted a quality management department; and 9., established a new on-line address so customers can share feedback (www.gearfeedback_at_westmarine.com)." It is interesting that in the most recent West Marine sale flyer the West marine radios have this statement on the ads: "'While this radio is designed to meet JS-7 submersibility standards (submersion in one meter of water for up to 30 minutes), normal use can render even the best built radios less than lully waterproof. Therefore, we include a FREE waterproof bag designed for your radio with your purchase to provide additional pro-tection against water damage." Personally, a safety device with a 33% rate of failure is unacceptable to me. I would not recommend purchasing one of the West Marine Brand radios. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Jun 1, 2005, at 10:55 PM, Greg Welker wrote: > "'While this radio is designed to meet JS-7 submersibility standards > (submersion in one meter of water for up to 30 minutes), normal use > can > render even the best built radios less than lully waterproof. > Therefore, we > include a FREE waterproof bag designed for your radio with your > purchase to > provide additional pro-tection against water damage." > > > Personally, a safety device with a 33% rate of failure is > unacceptable to > me. I would not recommend purchasing one of the West Marine Brand > radios. The same caveats apply to any electronic device meeting the JS-7 standard. I have not looked at this particular standard, but these tests don't necessarily replicate real world conditions. Carefully lowering a radio into a meter of freshwater (it might not specify saltwater) in a laboratory is not the same thing as having a device out on a hot, sunny and then blasting it with cold salt water. Their catalog recommends a bag for all hand-held VHF radios. You can see this as poor quality control, or as a business being honest about what they sell. I have yet to have any "waterproof" electronic device last more than 18 months before complete failure due to water infiltration. This includes several radios (not West) and 3 GPSs. It does look like stricter testing standards are starting to be applied to some of the radios out there. I hope my luck improves. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/2/2005 11:32:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com writes: I have yet to have any "waterproof" electronic device last more than 18 months before complete failure due to water infiltration. This includes several radios (not West) and 3 GPSs. It does look like stricter testing standards are starting to be applied to some of the radios out there. I hope my luck improves. Last week I received both our Standard Horizon HX260's after they were repaired/replaced by Standard. You guessed it: water ingress! They are both less than a year old. I too can be a bit of a retaliatory consumer, but kayaking is really tough on electronics so I tend to be a bit more sympathetic to the manufacturer. West Marine is doing something about it, so let's see if their remedies work. If not, contact them and let them know. You might be surprised to find them sympathetic to the consumer. *It was only a 4 foot wave I launched through! Surely this waterproof radio can handle that?* : ) Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think that West Marine is to be applauded for actually dealing with the problem in a positive way rather than hiding it. There was an interesting story on NPR yesterday about the manufacturer of a heart defibrillator implant (designed to be surgically placed inside the patient's body) which turned out to have a design flaw which can cause short-circuits in a tiny percentage of the units. Unfortunately, the short-circuit happens when the unit is needed and, since they don't work then, the patient dies. The manufacturer of this device changed the design but continued to sell their inventory of the flawed units on the theory that the failure rate was small. Now they are advising doctors not to replace them because the risk of death in the surgery required is statistically greater than the risk due to the failure of the devices. Talk about your Catch-22. West has admitted there is a problem, changed the product to clearly warn the consumer, and made arrangements to stop buying the product. The margins of a retailer like West can't be all that great and the radios, even though they are not 100% waterproof, can still be used perfectly safely in many marine situations (although, probably, not sea kayaking) as long as the consumer is aware of what they are buying. I think I'd buy from West just on the basis that they are likely to make it right if there is a problem. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 6/2/05, Rcgibbert_at_aol.com <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com> wrote: > In a message dated 6/2/2005 11:32:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, > nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com writes: > > I have yet to have any "waterproof" electronic device last more than > 18 months before complete failure due to water infiltration. This > includes several radios (not West) and 3 GPSs. It does look like > stricter testing standards are starting to be applied to some of the > radios out there. I hope my luck improves. > > > >>Last week I received both our Standard Horizon HX260's after they were >>repaired/replaced by Standard. You guessed it: water ingress! They are >>both less than a year old. I too can be a bit of a retaliatory consumer, >>but kayaking is really tough on electronics *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
After reading West Marine's common sense information about VHF handhelds. I picked up a bag for the Icom M32 that I recently ordered from West. That's also why I chose a radio with buttons rather than a twist on volume on/off switch. I also ordered an extra two years of warrantee. John MacKechnie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am sure that if real world conditions mimicked a radio immersed in still water, with air and water temperatures equal, there would be fewer failures. One of the issues with dive watches is that unless the watch is good to at least 150 feet, the added pressure of moving the watch through the water at 80 or 100 feet will exceed the pressure rating. The temperature differential of having a warm, or even hot radio or GPS, quickly immersed in cold water will far exceed the JS7 standard. The air inside has heated and expanded, the cold causes a partial vacuum and Cya! Also, just the act of dropping a unit under water will create additional pressure on the seals. When we produce truly waterproof devices for scuba use, they are potted; completely imbedded in an epoxy or silicone and often the battery is not user serviceable. Cya Bob Denton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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