Actually, the ACA insurance, though it cost more than it used too, is still a good deal, IMO. The cost for a sanctioned event is $20 if done ahead of time. If you don't sanction prior to 2 weeks before the event it is an additional $25. So, if you group members are all insured and you want to have an insured, sanctioned event then the cost is about 50 bucks. Perhaps not worth it if you and 5 buddies are going for a paddle. On the other hand, if there are 10 of you, friends of friends, then perhaps it is a better idea. It costs an additional $10 if they are not ACA members. FWIW, Steve Bailey -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Patrick Maun Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:35 PM To: Paddlewise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club Insurance, Liability, and Overcoming Inertia At 10:45 AM -0400 6/30/05, Jim Farrelly wrote: >[SNIP] > Does your club have insurance? We are looking into ACA, PAC and >private insurance. The paperwork requirements for the ACA insurance are steep. Our club recently left Subaru, er, I mean the ACA due to the increased cost of doing any sort of event with them. If I recall correctly, you now must register any club event with them and pay a $25 dollar fee. So no more impromptu events. We still insure our yearly ACA classes through them but our members are no longer automatically in the ACA. So we lose our Paddler subscription (such a great loss that) and the club get tp spend the saved money on a new trailer. Liability insurance has been a complete mess in the this country (the US) for awhile now. Some very high profile cases like the ice climbing death in Ouray have made it prohibitive to get good liability insurance. A local group who has sponsored a yearly rowing and paddling marathon has cancelled this years race due to the increased cost of insurance. Maybe some of the more legally inclined could provide details and those of you in other countries could site examples of how insurance works in your respective countries. For example, when I lived in the Netherlands in order to climb with one of the national clubs (they love their clubs in Holland), you had to get your personal "climbing insurance" policy. Seems heavy-handed except that the policy was easy to get and cost next to nothing. -Patrick >From kgo_at_imaginelan.com Thu Jun 30 14:45:37 2005 -0400 Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: Return-Path: <owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pip.winboot.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id j5UIjbO04728 for <kgo_at_localhost>; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:45:37 -0400 Received: from mail.comcast.net [204.127.202.10] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) for kgo_at_localhost (single-drop); Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com ([64.105.135.5]) by rwcrmxc17.comcast.net (rwcrmxc17) with ESMTP id <20050630184233r1700l4e9je>; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:42:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.105.135.5] Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (IDENT:y5E0oCR6dV9VBTBOrsnhtaTIMdZBzdys_at_cyclone.muddypuppies.com [127.0.0.1]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5UIgW2D019657 Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:42:32 -0700 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j5UIgWWO019656; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:42:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:42:32 -0700 Message-Id: <200506301842.j5UIgWWO019656_at_cyclone.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise-approval_at_paddlewise.net From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: BOUNCE paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net: Newbie subscriber submission from ["Kahng, Lucius" <luc_Kahng_at_nema.org>], approvals=0 taboo body match "/To:/i" at line 10 taboo body match "/Sent:/i" at line 11 taboo body match "/To:/i" at line 12 taboo body match "/copyright/i" at line 88 >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jun 30 11:42:20 2005 Received: from relay2.nema.org (relay2.nema.org [209.183.213.180]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5UIgJ2D019647 Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:42:19 -0700 Received: from NEWTON.Nema.org (newton.nema.org [209.183.213.182]) by relay2.nema.org (Build 103 8.9.3p2/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24502 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:44:05 -0700 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [Paddlewise] Find a Kayak Club? Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:41:50 -0400 Message-ID: <748BEA8435AD58459D5721DB22118088014FF0A6_at_newton.nema.org> Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] Find a Kayak Club? Thread-Index: AcV9nh/SOMCQzWBDTiS8RiJ9de6bLQABPAng From: "Kahng, Lucius" <luc_Kahng_at_nema.org> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cyclone.muddypuppies.com id j5UIgK2D019649 The recent discussions on kayak clubs has made me wonder if there's one in the Washington DC area? Or is there a site listing kayak clubs? Thanks! Lucius Kahng, systems administrator (703)841-3206 W - (571)331-7634 M -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Rob Robinson Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 1:46 PM To: Jim Farrelly; Paddlewise Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Club Insurance, Liability, and Overcoming Inertia I understand what you're feeling. I retired from a large aerospace company that had a paddling club for employees/retirees. Some of the members were great to me when I first got into the sport. Eventually I gained enough skill to become a certified instructor, and wanting to give back to the sport helped train beginners and led many trips for the club. We used a company approved waiver form for club activities, and were told "we had insurance". At some point a friend advised me that my largest exposure was not in losing a liability lawsuit, but in the cost of having to personally retain a lawyer to defend myself regardless of a suits outcome. I asked the company if they would provide an attorney to defend me should a suit occur but they refused to answer this question. I stopped participating in activities with this club. Next I joined Washington Kayak Club, a large private club that provides many hosted trips, pool sessions during the winter, and classes and clinics during the paddling season. I became a member of this clubs board. I discovered we had commercial insurance for our pool sessions as it was required by the various municipal authorities, but we didn't have any liability coverage for classes, trips, or clinics. I volunteered to survey available insurance and after the board voted to become an ACA PAC member volunteered to become the Insurance Chair and act as the go-between to satisfy ACA's reporting requirements and the clubs coverage needs. We rocked along like this for several years, but last year as part of a general liability insurance shake-up ACA lost their insurance carrier. The ACA paperwork reporting requirement that existed before has become even more restrictive. My club decided to remain a PAC member for now but, the decision is not unanimously popular:) I applaud your attempt to get your club members involved in paddling safety, from May through September myself and another instructor host a weekly 2-hour lake safety session for our club. We've been doing this for quite a few years now. Even though WKC is very involved in paddler training not all members are highly skilled or motivated to become so. Our safety sessions are not heavily attended but some of the beginners of a few years ago are now accomplished paddlers, even instructors, and that's very gratifying. It IS a way to give back to the sport we love. I worked as a pro for a short while and know how expensive private lessons are. It's even more expensive for one-on-one instruction. I don't have any idea how beginners could afford to get the level of training that clubs like mine can provide. All that said, the day my club stops providing liability coverage is the day I stop participaing in club events. Jim said: The almost heart attack at the safety clinic I hosted has been churning in my mind. <snip> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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