I have question for all you seasoned yakkers ( and please don't laugh) : How do you read the current? One night some friends and I were out on a tributary of the Columbia River. Dh told me the current was ebbing so to head up river first. When we got to our put in spot, it looked like it was flooding so we headed downriver first. Our return trip was much tougher ! Dh was right. He's a tugboat operator so I should've listened to him. So why did it look like it was heading the opposite direction. There was very little wind. Anyone else have this problem? Thanks, Melinda *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Melinda, The confusion is because you were probably right; when you got to your put-in. The current was ebbing... there. However by the time you got out to the main river or paddled a ways on your journey the current was on the flood... there. You didn't misread the current, you just misread when it was due to change in the area you were paddling. What we think of as a tide is just a moving stream of water and it takes time to move from one portion of a confined area (like a river or bay or estuary) to another. So at the mouth of the Columbia the current could be on the flood and at Portland it could still be ebbing. The same goes for long tributaries or sloughs. Your tugboat operator may have been thinking about a nearby station when he told you the tide was flooding but you drove far enough upriver to be in an area where the tide was still ebbing (but probably soon to change to flood). Also, very narrow branches of the main stream can have extremely sluggish current and not mirror very well the current in the main channel. So it's probably not a good idea to judge current by what you see in a slough. It's pretty common to have confusion about just exactly what the tide is doing in a river and that's one reason why I specifically bought a GPS (the Garmin 72) that will give me tides. It doesn't give me the exact tide for where I am on the river but instead gives me tides from nearby tide stations and I have to interpolate. But it's still darn handy for times when I am disremembering the exact tides for that place and time. Next time you go paddle check the tide and current at a point near where you are going to put in and use that for your planning. You can just do an Internet search for "columbia river tide" (or current) and that should give you a few choices. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 9/26/06, Bernerts <mbernert_at_comcast.net> wrote: > > I have question for all you seasoned yakkers ( and please don't laugh) : > How do you read the current? > One night some friends and I were out on a tributary of the Columbia > River. Dh > told me the current was ebbing so to head up river first. When we got to > our > put in spot, it looked like it was flooding so we headed downriver first. > Our > return trip was much tougher ! Dh was right. He's a tugboat operator so I > should've listened to him. > So why did it look like it was heading the opposite direction. There was > very > little wind. Anyone else have this problem? > > Thanks, > Melinda *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Melinda wrote: - > I have question for all you seasoned yakkers ( and please don't laugh) : > How do you read the current? G'Day Melinda, As Craig mentioned, the current in a wide river may vary considerably across its width. It might also go into reverse in large edddies near river banks or tributaries. River currents can lag tide tables by hours depending on where the tide table has been estimated. Some observations. They aren't perfect and you probably use most of them, but maybe there's one thats new: - 1. Look for the direction anchored boats are pointing and which end is anchored (usually the bow). 2. Stop mid stream, look at the bank (or a GPS) and wait for a minute or so to see which direction your boat drifts. 3. Before going too far in strong winds or currents I sometmes stop, turn round and paddle back a short distance to try and assess whether the group will be able to paddle back. Its quite easy to underestimate wind strength when going with the wind 4. Throw a stick as far as possible towards mid stream and watch its drift while still on the bank. 5. Look for reeds or grasses that are growing or trapped against rocks or branches near midstream. Check the direction they are lying in the water. All the above methods can be affected by wind. I've been misled once or twice by waves going in one direction when the current was going in another. And I won't laugh because I have the same problem trying to read rips in the surf. Seems to need an artist's eye. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bernerts wrote: > I have question for all you seasoned yakkers ( and please don't laugh) : > How do you read the current? One night some friends and I were out on a > tributary of the Columbia River. Dh told me the current was ebbing so to > head up river first. When we got to our put in spot, it looked like it > was flooding so we headed downriver first. Our return trip was much > tougher ! Dh was right. He's a tugboat operator so I should've listened > to him. So why did it look like it was heading the opposite direction. > There was very little wind. Anyone else have this problem? Melinda, you have opened a small can of worms. Paddling on/near the Columbia system means the tide/current model you need to work with is a little more complex than most areas. First, some basic tide/current modeling: the tide is a _vertical_ change in the surface of the water which moves from the ocean into the river. When the surface of the water is rising, we call that a rising tide, and at its peak, the tide is at its highest (= "high tide" on the tide book). When the surface of the water is falling, that's a falling tide, and when the water reaches its lowest point, that would be low tide on the tide book. But, in order for the water surface where you are standing to rise, water has to flow in from somewhere, and that means there will be a _horizontal_ flow of water, associated with the tide change. A horizontal flow of water is a current. When the current runs away from the ocean (up the Columbia from its mouth) towards Portland, for example, that would be a flood current. So, as the tide is rising, at a given point in the Columbia, you would expect a flood current. And, as the tide is falling, an ebb current. That's the basic tide/current model. But, the Columbia system has two complications which affect how that model works: 1. The Columbia is a river, with continual fresh water input in the lower reaches from the Willamette River and from the flow out of Bonneville dam, principally. If the Columbia were a long, narrow embayment with _no_ fresh water input, tides and currents would be simple: as the tide rises, the current would flood until high tide, at which point the current would drop off to zero ("high slack"). And, as the tide falls, the current would ebb toward the ocean, falling again to zero at low tide ("low slack"). Then the cycle would repeat again. But, because of the continuing input of fresh water into this system, there is a downstream component of flow which influences the currents. Basically, the fresh water input from upstream reduces the speed of the flood current, and enhances the speed of the ebb. Consequently, peak ebb currents are stronger than peak flood currents. It was that enhanced ebb you were fighting to get back to the put in. The fresh water input also _delays_ the onset of the flood, and _extends_ the run of the ebb, so high slack occurs an hour or two _before_ high tide, and low slack occurs an hour or two _after_ low tide, in the lower reaches of the Columbia near me (Astoria). Up near Portland, the effects are similar, but you may not see any flood current at all up there, because the effect of the tide is smaller (we get 10-foot high tides down here; yours run up to 5 or 6 feet, max.). In a nutshell: looking at the tide book for Portland, expect the ebb to begin _before_ high tide by a couple hours, and continue _after_ low tide for a couple hours. (Seasonal variation in river flow changes these times -- in times of heavy fresh water input, there will be _no_ flood current where you are. Ugh.) 2. The second complication is that side-sloughs and backwaters with restricted openings to the main stem Columbia can be a little out of synch with the main ebb current/flood current and high tide/low tide regime of the open River. What happens, using a rising tide as an example, is that the water surface in a side channel with a small opening will not rise as fast as the water level in the River. After a while, the water level in the River will reach its maximum level (near high slack), and the current in the River will begin to _ebb_. But, the side channel, because flow into it is restricted, can lag behind, and its water level may be _below_ that of the River. So what happens? Well, as you know, water flows down hill, so water will continue to flow _into_ the side channel, showing as a _flood_ current, even though the main River is _ebbing_. This is the second thing that nailed you and your buddies: when you launched, the current in your _side channel_ was genuinely flooding (see! you aren't crazy!), but when you reached the main River, it was ebbing. Later, as the side channel "caught up" with the River, it began to ebb, also, and you had to fight ebb all the way back. No wonder you were so tired! In a nutshell, to avoid this happening again, pay attention to the currents (as predicted above) in the main stem River, and ignore the current in the side channel, if you are headed for the main stem River. Hope this helps, and I hope I did not tell you how a watch works when all you wanted to know was what time it was! (Borrowing one of Craig's metaphors.) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). 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This is the NOAA online site that has some good info: _http://tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic.html_ (http://tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic.html) here's another: _http://tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic.html_ (http://tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic.html) Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks everyone who responded to my "reading the water" post. I'd completely forgotten about Bonneville, and that clearly needs to be factored in. As I said DH is a tugboat operator and I've been on the boat dozens(hundreds?) of times, and am familiar with tide charts. It seems very obvious on the tug but when I'm right down on the water, it's not so easy. We were paddling in the Multnomah Channel which isn't exactly a tributary. Or maybe it is. It's a fairly large trib if it is, dh pushes huge gravel barges along it. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that the Willamette River runs north. I suspect I may be hopelessly directionally challenged. But that's why I have a GPS. Cheers, Melinda *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bernerts wrote: > I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that the Willamette > River runs north. Could be you are in a state of "De Nile" [River]? Oh, I forgot, the Willamette is in a different state! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That little joke should tide us over for a while. :) Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 9/29/06, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: > > Bernerts wrote: > > > I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that the Willamette > > River runs north. > > Could be you are in a state of "De Nile" [River]? Oh, I forgot, the > Willamette is in a different state! > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thank you, Craig,David , and all for the discussions of tidal motions in rivers. It explains two phenomena of the Delaware River as well. One of our favorite trips here is on Crosswicks Creek, which enters the Delaware River a few miles below Trenton and about 80-90 miles above the meeting of Delaware Bay and the Atlantic. Nonetheless, there is usually at least a 6 ft tide range, sometimes over 8. --And it's fresh water; a really extensiver marsh. Typically we start about 2 hours before high tide time, paddle up to our destination around 6 or so miles upstream, stop for lunch, wander around, do some fishing, read a book, etc. until the tide turns and we ride it back out. Usually this is necessary because the tidal flow is often as great or greater than how fast we can paddle. Being that far up, we look to see how the flotsam and jetsam is moving to decide when the water flow is once again in our favor. On many occasions we have noticed that the water level has begun to drop although there is a healthy upstream flow still present. We'd also noticed that the return trip is always much faster. Now we have some idea of why. So thanks! Trenton is considered the upper limit of tidal activity. There's a long gradual drop there, called Trenton Falls, which is higher than the tide range, so from there above tidal activity is nonexistent. Or so I thought. About 14 miles above Trenton is a whitewater paddling site called the Lambertville Wing Dam. It's a terrific place for practice, and sometimes the only ww place in the area during the dry season. Lots of rocks, drops, eddies, etc. and it's easy to while away a whole summer's day there. I had noticed on some occasions that there was a very slight rise and fall during the day of the water level, judging by the wet lines left on rocks, that sort of thing. The river is the main source of water for Philadelphia, and there is a minimum flow requirement to keep the salt wedge from coming up from Delaware Bay to the point where it gets into their system. That's usually done by releases from reservoirs in New York, and you can often see bursts of water coming down the river reflected on the gages upstream. So I thought that that was what I was seeing. --But something about that never seemed right to me, and lo and behold, your explanations hold more water, so to speak. What I am seeing, I think, is a very small residual tidal effect all the way up there... So thanks again! Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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