Hi All- I want to thank Dave for an excellent explanation of the differences between tides and currents. i live and paddle on the Hudson River in NY, and it is a tidal esuary too- an "arm of the sea", tidal to Troy NY. I always meet folks who don't differentiate between tides and currents, and don't realize that you can have a falling tide on a flood- the back end, and a rising tide on an ebb, the same way. And that wind waves don't indicate the current. I have sorta gotten tired of correcting them, like who needs to hear that from me? But it is a true charcteristic of these systems, and if you want to really understand your body of water then it's nice to have a relatively accurate model to work off. Eldridge is our bible for currents. Nice to have a push both ways when you go out. Thanks - Jack Gilman Dave Kruger wrote: > First, some basic tide/current modeling: the tide is a _vertical_ change in the surface of the water which moves from the ocean into the river. When the surface of the water is rising, we call that a rising tide, and at its peak, the tide is at its highest (= "high tide" on the tide book). When the surface of the water is falling, that's a falling tide, and when the water reaches its lowest point, that would be low tide on the tide book. and: > In a nutshell: looking at the tide book for Portland, expect the ebb to begin _before_ high tide by a couple hours, and continue _after_ low tide for a couple hours. * Check out the Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club online at www.yprc.org. ---------------------------------------------- See you on the river! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jack Gilman wrote: > Hi All- > > I want to thank Dave for an excellent explanation of > the differences between tides and currents. i live and > paddle on the Hudson River in NY, and it is a tidal > esuary too- an "arm of the sea", tidal to Troy NY. > > I always meet folks who don't differentiate between > tides and currents, and don't realize that you can > have a falling tide on a flood- the back end, and a > rising tide on an ebb, the same way. Jack, thanks for the kind words. However, I have a confession to make: that business of a falling water level while the current is flooding -- or, a rising water level while the current is ebbing -- took me a _long_ time to come to terms with. It is a boggler, for sure! One analogy I have used to help others conceptualize the latter is a wash basin with the drain slightly ajar, and the tap running. I ask folks if it is possible for the water level in the basin to rise while the water is draining out the bottom. After a couple seconds, they get it, and then it is a lot easier make the mental transfer to the river, viewing the local chunk of river you are sitting on as a sort of wash basin, with water input from upstream, and water output going downstream. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Everyone, Very interesting and informative thread...much appreciated. Here in the New York area, currents are king in terms of planning trips. Around Manhattan Island, the dynamics are very complicated. On the flood, water enters New York harbor simultaneously through both the Verrazano Narrows from the SW, and Throg's Neck from NE. The high point on the east side of Manhattan island is Hell Gate where the East River, Harlem River and Long Island sound converge. At slack it is a peaceful pool (for a few minutes). At max flood or ebb, it is a raging caldron with standing waves, eddies, even whirlpools and currents reaching speeds in excess of 5 kts. Meanwhile, on the West side of Manhattan, the flood flows up the Hudson and up the Harlem River to Hell Gate from the opposite direction. As Jack Gilman has pointed out in an earlier post, the Hudson is a tidal estuary to the Troy locks some 120 nm to the North (where the tidal variation is 4-5'). For paddlers, this often means that getting the currents right makes one feel like superman cruising along in the 6-8kt range with very little effort (often passing cars on the expressways); getting them wrong turns one into a helpless piece of driftwood able to make little or no headway. Undertaking a circumnavigation of Manhattan (about 25.4 nm.) can be regularly accomplished in 6-7 hrs by by the reasonably skilled and energetic. Even competitive swimmers can make the trip in less than 8 hours. The catch is that it must be timed within a narrow window to coincide with slack flood at Hell Gate. If it is not..? It's never happened to me, but I've heard the horror stories of strong paddlers being swept backward and spun around in whirlpools. In fact, none of the "rivers," around Manhattan are actually rivers any more. They are all channels and estuaries. It's quite an experience to watch the water in Hell Gate turn from flat glass to standing waves with whitecaps right before one's eyes. Jeff Brooklyn, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
So *that's* why they call it "Hell's Gate". I always wondered. Tidal currents are very interesting. The San Juan Islands of Washington State lie in the path of tides coming in from the Pacific Ocean down the Straits of Juan de Fuca. The tidal current splits and goes north up the eastern side of Vancouver Island and south towards Seattle. One would reasonably expect the flood tide to move from west to east and the ebb tide to move from east to west. One would be wrong. In fact there is one place where the flood tide goes from east to west through a channel and only 6 miles north it flows from west to east through another channel. Once we get used to an area and its complications we can easily forget that a new area can have even more complications. Local knowledge is a wonderful thing. Thanks for this tidbit of information. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 9/30/06, Jeff Hoyer <jkayak_at_sopoint.com> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Very interesting and informative thread...much appreciated. > > Here in the New York area, currents are king in terms of planning trips. > Around Manhattan Island, the dynamics are very complicated..... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That could be an apt name for this place, but actually the name is "Hell Gate." "Hell" being, I believe, a Dutch name for "light," as it is in German. But I think most paddlers here call it "Hell's Gate" anyway! On 9/30/06 9:18 PM, "Craig Jungers" <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: > So *that's* why they call it "Hell's Gate". I always wondered. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jeff Hoyer said: For paddlers, this often means that getting the currents right makes one feel like superman cruising along in the 6-8kt range with very little effort(often passing cars on the expressways); getting them wrong turns one into a helpless piece of driftwood able to make little or no headway. I've heard the horror stories of strong paddlers being swept backward and spun around in whirlpools. In 1967 I was a part of a crew in a war canoe from the American Indian Center of Chicago team that raced in the war canoe race around Manhattan Island that year. I think it may have been the first time the race was held. We started at the Inwood Canoe Club (if I remember correctly) and hit Hell Gate at something other than slack tide. Our eight man canoe was going backwards for a while when we were paddling at full speed. We finally ferried over to shore (I seem to remember the United Nations building being there, is that right?)and crawled our way through the chaos and went on to win the race by about half an hour. Took us almost eight hours, again if I remember correctly. This was a long time ago. I always wondered how anyone could swim around the island faster than we could paddle it. Now I know. Wish we knew then how to time it, but I guess that was the duty of the race organizers, not us. Makes for a good story, though, even forty years later. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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