Well finally there seems to be a company taking electric kayak bilge pumps seriously. I'm glad to see it, though darn they're expensive. Making my own cost me probably $120 though. http://rapidrunnerbilge.com/products.php Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > Well finally there seems to be a company taking electric kayak bilge pumps > seriously. > I'm glad to see it, though darn they're expensive. That particular pump is not very efficient (I've seen it in the marine shops on its own). To make up for the power required, it seems they've had to provide substantial battery power (3.xAH NiMH vs 2.2AH that I use). That in turn makes for a more expensive rig. Better pumps are available. The smaller Attwoods still remain the least power demanding on the market. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree, I use the Attwood 500gph which is plenty and only cost $10 at WalMart. Still it's the waterproof switch and battery pack that seem the big stumbling block to a decent system. Perhaps they'll refine their system over time. Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Michael Daly That particular pump is not very efficient Better pumps are available. The smaller Attwoods still remain the least power demanding on the market. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Mark, I looked at their page a year and a half a go when I was making my pump systems and decided that, nice as their system looks, it was more expensive that I wanted. Mine was more in line with yours in cost. I think Mike Daly's page http://www.greatlakeskayaker.ca/pump.html was the inspiration for my system, though I use completely different parts! I have used Rule and whale pumps successfully. I enjoyed looking at your TAKS shots At 10:47 AM 28/12/2006, you wrote: >Well finally there seems to be a company taking electric kayak bilge pumps >seriously. >I'm glad to see it, though darn they're expensive. >Making my own cost me probably $120 though. > >http://rapidrunnerbilge.com/products.php *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Mark, This looks well made. You should buy one and let us know how it works! Generally I'm opposed to gadgets, but if one does a lot of solo paddling (not a good idea) this thing could make a nice backup. In a re-enter & roll situation in which the cockpit floods. This could make the difference between making it home or not. I have shared several times about a swim I took on Lake Mean when practicing my roll in strong winds. The wave steepness and frequency was such that after a re-enter and roll my cockpit filled almost instantly. Vickie rafted up and helped me pump the boat. Otherwise I would have been paddling a submarine or swimming to shore. I prefer a paddling partner to an electric gizmo because they are more reliable and sometimes bring tasty snacks along. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- From: owner-ckf_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-ckf_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sanders Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:48 AM To: PaddleWise Subject: CKF: Bilge pumps Well finally there seems to be a company taking electric kayak bilge pumps seriously. I'm glad to see it, though darn they're expensive. Making my own cost me probably $120 though. http://rapidrunnerbilge.com/products.php Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I installed an electric bilge pump in my Arluk III using a very similar set-up to that on Mike Daly's web site. I used a Rule 500 pump and a 2.8ah sealed lead acid battery housed in an Otter box (8.5 " x 5" x 2"). I also used the "hot tub" air switch method. However, I found during a 6 week paddle this past summer that the "air button" is very susceptible to jamming when sand grains make their way between the button and it's housing. My solution (during the trip) was to put a piece of duct tape (trimmed to fit) over the button, making sure the tape adhered to the entire button/housing-ring so as to seal out sand grains. I then cut a 1/2" slit through the tape across the button so that when needed I could push my finger through the slit to depress the button and activate the pump. Over the 6 weeks I used the pump for maybe 5 minutes, at the end of the 6 weeks the battery still had enough charge to run the pump. I also found that if the outlet hose was full of water (between the check valve and through hull fitting) prior to activating the pump, it could not push past that column of water. But if the outlet hose was clear - no trouble at all, it pumped out water like a fire hose. (I haven't looked into why that was; perhaps someone here has the answer already? ) My on the fly solution once again was duct tape, this time across the through hull fitting, kept the tube clear of water and when the pump was needed I just peeled the tape off. Once the bugs are worked out (or around) it's a great little set-up. Don Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I also found that if the outlet hose was full of water (between the check > valve and through hull fitting) prior to activating the pump, it could not > push past that column of water. But if the outlet hose was clear - no trouble > at all, it pumped out water like a fire hose. (I haven't looked into why that > was; perhaps someone here has the answer already? ) My on the fly solution > once again was duct tape, this time across the through hull fitting, kept the > tube clear of water and when the pump was needed I just peeled the tape off. I'm betting the pump is a self-priming pump, and when left unused for a time the pump and pipe up to the check valve fills with air. When turned on, the pump can't pump the air with enough force to displace the water in the outlet pipe. Keeping the pump full of water would be another solution. C *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Don Lowther wrote: > I installed an electric bilge pump in my Arluk III using a very similar set-up > to that on Mike Daly's web site. I used a Rule 500 pump and a 2.8ah sealed > lead acid battery housed in an Otter box (8.5 " x 5" x 2"). I also used the > "hot tub" air switch method. [snip] > I also found that if the outlet hose was full of water (between the check > valve and through hull fitting) prior to activating the pump, it could not > push past that column of water. But if the outlet hose was clear - no trouble > at all, it pumped out water like a fire hose. (I haven't looked into why that > was; perhaps someone here has the answer already? ) My on the fly solution > once again was duct tape, this time across the through hull fitting, kept the > tube clear of water and when the pump was needed I just peeled the tape off. Humph. That shouldn't happen. Sounds to me like the pump is not getting a prime because a check valve on the output side is held closed. You might take apart the check valve on the outlet side and clean it, or replace the spring with a lighter duty one. Running the pump dry for an extended period will wear out the impeller, BTW. Could be replacing the impeller will do the job, also, if it is a little worn. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Don Lowther wrote: > However, I found during a 6 week paddle this past summer that the "air button" > is very susceptible to jamming when sand grains make their way between the > button and it's housing. I haven't found that problem and am not sure if it's a result of my having found a button with a tight fit or the fact that sandy beaches are rare in the Great Lakes areas where I paddle. > I also found that if the outlet hose was full of water (between the check > valve and through hull fitting) prior to activating the pump, it could not > push past that column of water. But if the outlet hose was clear - no trouble > at all, it pumped out water like a fire hose. I've had problems with intermittent pump priming even when there was enough water in the bilge to saturate the pump. I never noticed if the outlet hose had water in it at the time - I'll have to look into that and see if I have such a correlation. I did notice that the problem would go away if I removed the pump and reseated it in its mount (the base allows the pump body to twist off). I finally took everything non-electric apart, cleaned it up, reassembled it and the problem went away - I thought it might be the impeller scroll case not being sealed quite right and therefore not generating enough pressure to push the water out. If you are having a problem with water on the outlet side of the check valve, try relocating it as close to the outlet fitting as possible to reduce the amount of water that can be held there. Good thing the hose is the cheapest part of the assembly. I also had occasional check valve leaks - there was sand/gravel/twig/something in the duck bill part of the valve lodging it open. I never go out without my manual pump as a backup. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> I also found that if the outlet hose was full of water (between the >> check >> valve and through hull fitting) prior to activating the pump, it could >> not >> push past that column of water. But if the outlet hose was clear - no >> trouble >> at all, it pumped out water like a fire hose. > > If you are having a problem with water on the outlet side of the check > valve, > try relocating it as close to the outlet fitting as possible to reduce the > amount of water that can be held there. Good thing the hose is the > cheapest > part of the assembly. > > I also had occasional check valve leaks - there was > sand/gravel/twig/something > in the duck bill part of the valve lodging it open. > > I never go out without my manual pump as a backup. > > Mike I do a lot of solo paddling and have been very interested in an electric bildge pump. These problems with check valves makes me think they are not reliable enough. Would a cork or similar plug in the through hull fitting be a better more bomb proof solution? -mike -mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
mike dziobak wrote: > These problems with check valves makes me think they are not > reliable enough. Would a cork or similar plug in the through hull fitting > be a better more bomb proof solution? They are reliable. The leaks I've had are not significant - just a trickle - and are the result of me not keeping my kayak clean enough inside. I once saw a hand pump fail due to a bit of string getting sucked into it, so other pumps are prone to contamination failures too. As with any equipment, you have to do some maintenance and keeping crap out of the bilge is part of that. A plug would work, but would require you to be able to reach the outlet before and after running the pump. That means you have to place the outlet within arms reach and you have to fiddle with something. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike wrote: >These problems with check valves makes me think >they are not reliable enough. Would a cork or >similar plug in the through hull fitting >be a better more bomb proof solution? G'Day Mike, I've one boat with a pump and non-return valve and another with a pump and a cork - both work well. I think some non return valves are not spring loaded and you may be affected by gravity and/or loading with a water column if oriented inappropriately. Mine is mounted horisontally. In any cse these days I always travel with a spare cork and a cord to tie it to the boat. Otherwise it takes me an hour to carve one from drift wood and line it with duct tape to make it compliant and waterproof - don't ask me how I know:~) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I went the cork route, but realized the other day it was missing. For the most part of my paddling, I don't think not having it really matters. Unless you spend a lot of time with your deck submerged its hard for a lotta water to get in. Hey I'm no sissy, but I don't seem to paddle in conditions where a whole lotta water is going to find its way in to a 3/4 inch hole behind my cockpit. It would be a sad way to go though! Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark wrote: - >I don't think not having it really matters. >Unless you spend a lot of time with your deck >submerged its hard for a lotta water to get in. >Hey I'm no sissy, but I don't seem to paddle in >conditions where a whole lotta water is going to >find its way in to a 3/4 inch hole behind my >cockpit. It would be a sad way to go though! G'Day Mark, It sure pays to have a good set up like yours or else a cork! I remember paddling a loaded rudderless boat with a faulty valve and the outlet in the side of the hull, on a set of 30km crossings. That leaky hole was an absolute pain when it came to coping with quartering seas and winds where one was edging all the time. Unloaded the outlet had never been a problem! One good outcome was my fitness level for a month or two following the trip! Thats when I carved the cork from driftwood (and BTW fixed the leak in the cable gland of my skeg). Life was so pleasant afterwards! I'd heartily recommend getting rid of any possible leaks on long crossings with loaded boats. A leak test by filling the boat with water isn't adequate, its best to go for a test run with the boat in the conditions and with the set up you intend to paddle in. And with a beach nearby! All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The curly- que would be a loop in the outlet hose to keep water from easily entering through the outlet and flowing down to the pump/bilge. I think the issue with a pump of this type, based on what Rule says, is that it never has what we might consider to be the classic 'Prime' that we'd see with a vane or piston type pump. The extra clearance between the pump's impeller and the housing is such that it can't stop water from backing out when it's not operating. I suppose building an improvised add-on housing/inlet with a check valve would do the trick (unless the boat goes upside down and the water drains out the thru-hull fitting, leaving the pump without any water to push)- but I think the suggestion from the pump manufacturer to remove the check valve and add a loop to the outlet hose would be much simpler and less time consuming. It would depend on the pump being used I suppose, there may be some out there that would be quite easy to add a check valve to . The pump I have would not , I'll go with the loop solution. Thx again, Don *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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