I called the Canadian Coast Guard about 8 years ago before a paddling trip to Cape Breton, and asked about VHF use. Their response was enlightening. They told me that while it was illegal for Americans to transmit without a ship station license, they wouldn't bother us for monitoring, and they would be inclined to look the other way if we transmitted in a real emergency. I think they were glad that we could call for help, and were also able to get weather forecasts. If you bring one to Canada, just keep it turned off and out of sight when you're on land or near launching or landing, and only monitor unless it's an emergency. This way, you haven't done anything wrong, and still have the security of having the radio if you really need it. If you want to talk amongst a group, bring FRS radios -- they're legal AFAIK. -- Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_charter.net Check out my website! http://webpages.charter.net/wsmith16/home.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
wsmith16_at_charter.net wrote: > If you want to talk amongst a group, bring FRS radios -- they're legal AFAIK. FRS is legal. GMRS is legal but with different wattage limits than the US. <http://en.kayakwiki.org/index.php/FRS_and_GMRS_radio> Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 3/13/07, Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca> wrote: > > wsmith16_at_charter.net wrote: > > > If you want to talk amongst a group, bring FRS radios -- they're legal > AFAIK. > > FRS is legal. GMRS is legal but with different wattage limits than the > US. > > <http://en.kayakwiki.org/index.php/FRS_and_GMRS_radio> > Perhaps a little more explanation is in order here. Most of the little walkie-talkies sold at Wal-Mart, Costco, Big-5 and countless other stores almost always combine FRS (Family Radio Service) and GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) into one radio. What they don't tell you (usually) is that the GMRS portions of these radios require a license (at least if you're in the USA; but not in Canada). First a little explanation of the difference between a "channel" and a "tone code". Radios are channelized by dividing a frequency range up and giving a number to each division. Then the radio is built with a tuning system that restricts the radio from using any frequencies that aren't on the channel plan. So you can tune your radio to channel 2 or channel 3 but not, for instance, to channel 2.5. A tone code is a sub-audible (this means you can't hear it <grin>) audio tone that acts as a squelch control. A transmission that carries this tone will be heard on any radio that has a corresponding tone but one without the tone will not. However, any radio that does not use tone encoding (or has their tone encoding set to 0) will be able to hear all transmissions on that channel whether tone-encoded or not. Manufacturers and marketers, being sneaky little devils, will try to make people believe that the radios they buy have thousands of "channels" by multiplying the actual channels by the number of tone-encoding frequencies. So if you have 10 channels and 3 tones they might say that the radio has "30 channels". The radio still has only 10 channels. Tone encoding doesn't add channels, but it does make it possible to not hear those using the same channel but different tone codes. So now back to FRS and GMRS radios. Channels 1 through 14 on these little radios are FRS. Kayakers may use these in both the USA and Canada (and probably other places but I don't have information on that) without a license. Channels 14 and above are GMRS. Paddlers in the USA could be in trouble if caught using them without a license. In addition, even with a license, GMRS is supposed to facilitate communications only between family members. In other words, you can use GMRS to communicate between you and family members under one license but if you have a friend along he (or she) must have his (or her) own license in order to be legal. Your license covers family members but not friends (at least in the USA; in Canada no license is required). The power input for these two services is different. FRS channels are supposed to be limited to 0.5 (1/2) watts. Power input to the GMRS channels can be up to 5 watts in the USA and up to 2 watts in Canada. The advertising copy that says you can talk "up to 5 miles" is referring to the GMRS channels assuming that they are using high power. However, there is no law that requires the GMRS channels to be higher power. So your radio might be 1/2 watt on both FRS and GMRS channels. So... what to do? In Canada you can use these walkie-talkies on any channel as long as the power input on Channel 14 and above is limited to 2 watts or less. You can probably determine this by checking the specifications of the walkie-talkies you own (or are thinking of owning). In the USA you can only use Channels 1 through 14 legally with no license. With a license you can use all the channels but you can only legally use the GMRS channels (14 and up) for communications with family members. Can you use all the channels indiscriminately without getting in trouble? Yeah, probably. I suspect most people have no idea of the differences between FRS and GMRS and there is almost no enforcement. Your chances of the FCC getting involved are pretty slim. However, if you *do* get caught and if you have any other government-issued licenses, you could be risking those. I have lots of other licenses (pilot's licenses, commercial radio licenses, USCG licenses, etc.) so I'm careful to make sure I'm within the rules even if the chances are slim that I'll be caught. I set my radios to 14/20 (Channel 14 and tone code 20). This limits my exposure to other people or groups using Channel 14 (most use Channel 1 anyway) so we don't have to listen to their chatter. However, anyone listening to Channel 14 without their tone encoding turned on will be able to listen to our chatter. There is no privacy. Setting a tone code simply limits what *you* hear; not what others hear. We find these radios to be remarkably useful for group talk as long as everyone (ahem!) has theirs turned on. Most of them are not water resistant, however... but they're cheap enough so that you could consider them expendable. But, and this is important: Do not consider FRS or GMRS walkie-talkies to be good substitutes for a marine VHF. If you are paddling open water then carry a marine VHF. If you are paddling where there is no monitoring of marine VHF frequencies but there is cell phone coverage then I advise you to carry a cell phone in a water-resistant bag or case. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Its worth adding that the actual license and test is easy. The stuff you need to learn for it is stuff you should know anyway. If you want, you can buy the book online and then take the test at your convenience. You can order the book here: http://www.cps-ecp.ca/shipstore/ --- wsmith16_at_charter.net wrote: > I called the Canadian Coast Guard about 8 years ago > before a paddling trip to Cape Breton, and asked > about VHF use. Their response was enlightening. > > They told me that while it was illegal for Americans > to transmit without a ship station license, they > wouldn't bother us for monitoring, and they would be > inclined to look the other way if we transmitted in > a real emergency. I think they were glad that we > could call for help, and were also able to get > weather forecasts. > > If you bring one to Canada, just keep it turned off > and out of sight when you're on land or near > launching or landing, and only monitor unless it's > an emergency. This way, you haven't done anything > wrong, and still have the security of having the > radio if you really need it. > > If you want to talk amongst a group, bring FRS > radios -- they're legal AFAIK. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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