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From: James Farrelly <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Again with the tankers!
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:17:34 -0400
Went out fossil hunting on the Savannah again Saturday.  The  
container ship New York Express expressed its displeasure with me  
being next to the channel.  Two other container ships had gone down  
river while I was digging with no ill effects for me. But those ships  
were empty and rode high in the water.  The New York Express was full  
and low.  She passed me just as I had gotten back into my kayak and  
was cruising about 25 feet from shore well outside the channel.

I heard a sudden rushing sound and turned to see a five foot wall of  
muddy water slamming into the bank where I had been about a minute  
earlier.  I leaned hard to turn away from what looked like a tidal  
bore gone crazy.  Surfing, jinking and bracing over that mess was  
exciting yet it was spooky to think I could have just as easily still  
been on the bank with my head down concentrating on my digging.  If I  
had been hit by that succession of waves I am not too sure I would  
have survived. My boat and all my gear would certainly have been lost.

The locals tend to give me a second look when I kayak alone because I  
always wear my composite helmet.  I have my reasons and those reasons  
were all waiting for me when I got home.


Jim et al
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From: Derek <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Again with the tankers! - speeds?
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
What is the typical travel speed for these tankers?  I
know speeds are posted on some charts, but they don't
necessarily follow the posted limits.

--- James Farrelly <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote:

> Went out fossil hunting on the Savannah again
> Saturday.  The  
> container ship New York Express expressed its
> displeasure with me  
> being next to the channel.  Two other container
> ships had gone down  
> river while I was digging with no ill effects for
> me. But those ships  
> were empty and rode high in the water.  The New York
> Express was full  
> and low.  She passed me just as I had gotten back
> into my kayak and  
> was cruising about 25 feet from shore well outside
> the channel.
> 
> I heard a sudden rushing sound and turned to see a
> five foot wall of  
> muddy water slamming into the bank where I had been
> about a minute  
> earlier.  I leaned hard to turn away from what
> looked like a tidal  
> bore gone crazy.  Surfing, jinking and bracing over
> that mess was  
> exciting yet it was spooky to think I could have
> just as easily still  
> been on the bank with my head down concentrating on
> my digging.  If I  


 
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Again with the tankers! - speeds?
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:14:02 -0700
Derek wrote:
> What is the typical travel speed for these tankers?  I know speeds are
> posted on some charts, but they don't necessarily follow the posted
> limits.

Derek, that's a good question.  I bet it depends heavily on the nature of 
the waterway.  The narrow channels referred to in earlier posts probably 
have tighter speed restrictions than those on the Columbia River (which is 
all I know well).  Here, 15 knots is not unusual, but frequently the 
vessels slow way down when meeting opposing tankers or freighters, or when 
turning, or when going over shallower areas.  Then, they are often 
traveling at only a few knots, relative to the water.  A minimum of 4-5 
knots, I imagine.

One added complication is that we often have river/tidal currents of three 
knots or so; when a freighter is traveling with the current, to maintain 
steerageway, they still have to hold several knots of hull speed, so they 
may close on you pretty fast when the speed of the current is added on.

They are so huge, a paddler does not appreciate how fast they are moving 
until they are on him/her.

I've not had any close calls, but others have.  For us, the wakes are 
mostly fun to play in, and not a safety issue at all.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Again with the tankers! - speeds?
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:42:17 -0700
A large ship needs 4 to 6 knots of speed through the water in order to
maintain steerage. They can slow to less than that but will then be reduced
to adding turns to the screw in order to get the stern to move enough to
turn. We used to slow to 2-3 kts at one critical spot in Valdez Narrows and
it always created a lot of pucker. It certainly never seemed safer to get
that slow to me.

Kayakers also need to remember that large ships do not turn by moving the
bow but, rather, they turn by moving the stern. A paddler can find oneself
in a tricky predicament when encountering a large ship in a narrow, winding
waterway.

Modern ships can easily displace 80,000 tons of water and when that much
mass is also moving then there is certainly going to be some effect on the
water levels along the shore of a narrow channel. Generally I think that the
farther from the ship the better while remembering that the deeper the water
the better and the farther from the shore the better.

There, that should clear the matter up nicely.

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA

On 3/11/07, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote:
>
> Derek wrote:
> > What is the typical travel speed for these tankers?  I know speeds are
> > posted on some charts, but they don't necessarily follow the posted
> > limits.
>
> Derek, that's a good question.  I bet it depends heavily on the nature of
> the waterway.  The narrow channels referred to in earlier posts probably
> have tighter speed restrictions than those on the Columbia River (which is
> all I know well).  Here, 15 knots is not unusual, but frequently the
> vessels slow way down when meeting opposing tankers or freighters, or when
> turning, or when going over shallower areas.  Then, they are often
> traveling at only a few knots, relative to the water.  A minimum of 4-5
> knots, I imagine.
>
> One added complication is that we often have river/tidal currents of three
> knots or so; when a freighter is traveling with the current, to maintain
> steerageway, they still have to hold several knots of hull speed, so they
> may close on you pretty fast when the speed of the current is added on.
>
> They are so huge, a paddler does not appreciate how fast they are moving
> until they are on him/her.
>
> I've not had any close calls, but others have.  For us, the wakes are
> mostly fun to play in, and not a safety issue at all.
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From: Tord Eriksson <tord_at_tord.nu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Again with the tankers! - speeds?
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:36:20 +0100
On Tuesday 13 March 2007 14:22, Craig wrote:
> Kayakers also need to remember that large ships do not turn by moving
> the bow but, rather, they turn by moving the stern. A paddler can find
> oneself in a tricky predicament when encountering a large ship in a
> narrow, winding waterway.

With the leeboard down that's exactly how our Klepper XXL behaves :-)! 
Not too surprising, as in kayak terms it is a fairly large vessel :-)!

Tord
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From: Michael Collins <michael_at_seakayakermag.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Again with the tankers!
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:28:15 -0700
James,

I'm not sure how the New York Express signaled her displeasure with you  
but my guess is it was a whistle blast. Having worked commercial boats  
I would say there is a good chance she was trying to warn you of the  
wave that would be headed your way.  Much as we might not want to  
believe it most of these guys are pretty decent and many sail or kayak  
for pleasure.

Michael


> From: James Farrelly <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
>
> Went out fossil hunting on the Savannah again Saturday.  The
> container ship New York Express expressed its displeasure with me
> being next to the channel.  Two other container ships had gone down
> river while I was digging with no ill effects for me. But those ships
> were empty and rode high in the water.  The New York Express was full
> and low.  She passed me just as I had gotten back into my kayak and
> was cruising about 25 feet from shore well outside the channel.
>
> I heard a sudden rushing sound and turned to see a five foot wall of
> muddy water slamming into the bank where I had been about a minute
> earlier.  I leaned hard to turn away from what looked like a tidal
> bore gone crazy.  Surfing, jinking and bracing over that mess was
> exciting yet it was spooky to think I could have just as easily still
> been on the bank with my head down concentrating on my digging.  If I
> had been hit by that succession of waves I am not too sure I would
> have survived. My boat and all my gear would certainly have been lost.
>
> The locals tend to give me a second look when I kayak alone because I
> always wear my composite helmet.  I have my reasons and those reasons
> were all waiting for me when I got home.
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