Nick wrote; > This example is not as simple as it seems. Didn't think it was. :-) > Board surfers use the ability to duck under waves to deal with the surf > more safely. By their estimation the ability to dive underwater provides > more safety than the ability to stay afloat. Boat surfers do not have > this option. Since they are locked into a high buoyancy boat, they can > not dive underwater with or without a pfd. When a boat surfer does become > separated from their boat, it is often after being harshly worked by the > waves. Because they are locked into the boat, boat surfers are more > likely to get heavily trashed by the waves than board surfers. After > being worked over, they are much more likely to need the assistance of a > PFD than a board surfer. In their estimation, the buoyancy of the PFD > provides more safety than the ability to dive underwater after being > forcibly removed from their boat. Really good point. What about surf kayaks. Looks like a lot of them are Sot's with quick release thigh straps. Maybe this is a question of using the wrong kind of gear and trying to make the best of it. Of course, it leaves the question of, would it be OK for a swimmer to not have a PFD if he were just swimming along and not surfing and, would it be OK for the surf kayaker to not have PFD if he wasn't surfing. In other words, is it only this specific instance when the PFD is essential to safety? Cheers John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Really good point. What about surf kayaks. Looks like a lot of them are > Sot's with quick release thigh straps. Maybe this is a question of using the > wrong kind of gear and trying to make the best of it. A lot of surf kayakers here in California don't wear PFD's. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Winters wrote: > Of course, it leaves the question of, would it be OK for a swimmer to > not have a PFD if he were just swimming along and not surfing and, would > it be OK for the surf kayaker to not have PFD if he wasn't surfing. In > other words, is it only this specific instance when the PFD is essential > to safety? John, as you well know, it depends. What follows is restricted to "warm" water, in which hypothermia is a very remote hazard. In my misspent youth, my friends and I did quite a bit of "offshore" swimming [to the kelp beds about a mile plus offshore my home beach in Southern California] almost all of it using swim fins, a mask, and a snorkel. But, no PFD. A PFD, in fact, would have been a hindrance, impeding our ability to swim, wearing us out, no doubt _increasing_ our risk of fatigue, and therefore increasing our risk. However, we always towed along (or, one of us paddled out) a surf mat, to rest on. The surf mat gave us a platform needed for hauling gear, also. And, some measure of backup in the event one of us cramped up or became disabled. So, John, I'd say that the swimmer might need some sort of bailout system, depending on where he/she is swimming, and the same goes for a paddler. Either, if faced with a long, demanding swim to reach safety, might need some sort of flotation support as backup. Otherwise, it is do or die. Getting back to swimming on warm water: did we feel we needed a surf mat while swimming just outside the breakers? No way. And, no way did we need a PFD. Why? Because we had a high degree of confidence in our ability to get to shore safely, through surf. Like Nick says, experienced surfers scorn PFD's when surfing (body or board), because they dodge the effects of breaking waves by heading for the bottom, popping back up between waves to breathe. In fact, a PFD would be hazardous for a body surfer or board surfer ... the flotation exposing the surfer to maytagging in breaking waves. [Been there; done that.] These experiences are the basis for my resistance to laws mandating PFD use for all boaters, despite the fact that on cold water, when paddling a sea kayak, I _always_ wear one (I don't surf my kayak in larger waves). The legal system has no business messing with the habits of surfers and paddlers who know what they are doing. Children, OK. Adults, no. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > using swim fins, a mask, and a > snorkel. But, no PFD. A PFD, in fact, would have been a hindrance, > impeding our ability to swim, wearing us out, no doubt _increasing_ our > risk of fatigue, and therefore increasing our risk. For snorkeling, I have a snorkler's buoyancy vest. It's a snug fitting neoprene vest with chambers that can be inflated by mouth. Little resistance while swimming, but if I stop for a rest (or feel the need for substantial buoyancy), I can inflate the thing. It deflates easily to continue swimming. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Of course, it leaves the question of, would it be OK for a swimmer to not > have a PFD if he were just swimming along and not surfing and, would it be > OK for the surf kayaker to not have PFD if he wasn't surfing. In other > words, is it only this specific instance when the PFD is essential to > safety? > > Cheers > > John Winters For the swimmer, assuming he's there voluntarily, the PFD would most likely be more of a hindrance than a help. He entered the water in the knowledge that he was going to sink or swim by his own efforts alone. While the possibility of injury while swimming along is not completely impossible, it is much less likely than might happened to a kayaker who gets dumped. For the kayaker, the PFD really shouldn't be much of a hindrance, regardless of what he's doing or where in the world he's doing it. Add to that the fact that -- in my observations, limited as they may be -- most kayakers who swim do not do so voluntarily. Some, like myself, may not be strong swimmers to start with. Factor in the possibility of injury during the process that resulted in them swimming, or in the process of trying to regain their boat, and I can't think of any good reason *not* to have a PFD on (or *very* handy). Should the kayaker be confident in his swimming ability, and should the air and water conditions be such that he feels the risk is minimal, I would be the last to want to mandate PFD use. But too many of us are prone to over-estimate our abilities and under-estimate the conditions. And even those whose powers of estimation are good, do they account for the unforseen? -- Darryl *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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