Just how tough are SOF kayaks? How well would they stand up to an emergency landing on a dumping surf beach? Could they survive more then one dumping surf landing? What's the best skin to use if you want to paddle a SOF in the rock gardens? Can you build a SOF with water proof forward and aft compartments as Doug seems to imply he'd like to do? Would not ridgid bulkheads thwart the whole flexible aspects of a SOF? I ask these questions out of ignorance I'm not trying to start a month long arguement over the merits of SOF. In fact I've considered a SOF for a trip I'd like to make to a remote area. Howeer, I'd like to know if such boat can take the sort of punishment for example that Chris Duff's NDK went through down in New Zealand. Gordin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin, Check out the web site of a friend of mine, John Petersen of Shaman Kayaks. On this page, he has a video that might answer your questions about how they hold up. http://shamankayaks.com/shaman/faq.asp Steve Holtzman Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 03:58, Doug wrote: > I'm aware of the SOF issue. I guess I realize the SOF's are better at > shorter duration trips/outing - not long, dangerous crossing or rough, > extended off shore paddling. Well, Kleppers have gone almost anywhere you'd like to mention, and more Skin-On-Frame than them is hard to figure :-)! The new Quattro ones have CF frames - getting high-tech, eh?! Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] On Apr 4, 2007, at 12:53 PM, Tord Eriksson wrote: > On Wednesday 04 April 2007 03:58, Doug wrote: >> I'm aware of the SOF issue. I guess I realize the SOF's are better at >> shorter duration trips/outing - not long, dangerous crossing or >> rough, extended off shore paddling. > > Well, Kleppers have gone almost anywhere you'd like to mention, and > more Skin-On-Frame than them is hard to figure :-)! Two English blokes are going to attempt the Northwest passage soon... In Feathercraft... Podcast here: http://homepage.mac.com/simon.willis/PodcastLibrary/ArcticVoice.mp3 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear Gordin, Rigid bulkheads wouldn't work at all-- they'd fail very quickly. Pavia Lumholt (a Greenlander) has devised a method for adding cloth bulkeads that seems to work extremely well and is quite easy to make. Photo-instructions at the link below: http://www.paavia.dk/Bulkhead.htm Best, Harvey --- Gordin Warner <gwarner2_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Can you build a SOF with water proof forward and aft > compartments as Doug > seems to imply he'd like to do? > Would not ridgid bulkheads thwart the whole flexible > aspects of a SOF? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin (et al), Chris's Romany didn't take the punishment in the surf, in the end of course. Here's another Romany with surf damage: >http://www.apgar.com/040430_gallery.htm< I've seen some BC built kayaks buckle way too easily in the surf though - and no, it ain't a pretty sight. I mean really buckled man.. Truth is, any kayak is subject to surf damage, especially filled with water. The Cape Falcon guys seem to put their SOF's through the surf grinder, with undue abandon. I'd hate to have a wooden hull rib break at the chine while surfing and impale my buttocks though. Harvey G, I don't think, reports structural problems in SOF surfing, though he tends to hit the back of his head on the rear deck when the waves get too big! Guess you better configure your SOF aft deck beams to anthropocentrically miss your head, rather cradling it on the softer skin part between deck beams. :-) I think the loading and unloading aspect is what makes touring less objective with a SOF, not to mention the lower volume usually associated the the funnier paddling designs. My ultimate touring/surf capable/rock garden survivable sea kayak would probably be made using laminated carbon fiber/ Kevlar composites thermoformed into shape. As manufacturing composite affordability gets better, it may be a more realistic option in the future. Heck of a long way from SOF's of 2000 years ago. Hey, I like the picture of you from Mick Allen's site: >http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/wallpaper/download.php?image=18&pic=5< It's now on my monitor background. Let's do Deception Pass sometime. Sounds like good training: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/outdoors/2002866793_nwwkayaks16.html Behave, Doug > Just how tough are SOF kayaks? > > How well would they stand up to an emergency landing on a dumping surf > beach? > Could they survive more then one dumping surf landing? > > What's the best skin to use if you want to paddle a SOF in the rock > gardens? > > Can you build a SOF with water proof forward and aft compartments as Doug > seems to imply he'd like to do? > > Would not ridgid bulkheads thwart the whole flexible aspects of a SOF? > > I ask these questions out of ignorance I'm not trying to start a month > long > arguement over the merits of SOF. In fact I've considered a SOF for a > trip > I'd like to make to a remote area. Howeer, I'd like to know if such boat > can > take the sort of punishment for example that Chris Duff's NDK went through > down in New Zealand. > > Gordin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Thanks for the link Rob. I enjoyed the story. I can imagine the keen > juxtaposition of dealing with dumping surf in a world class surf break > area, > then paddling the relative serenity of the river upstream. > > Folks might enjoy Brian's story of the same trip: > >>>http://www.capefalconkayak.com/7w-arch > -at-cabo-matapalo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.capefalconkayak.com/costarica.html > &h=333&w=500&sz=35&hl=en&start=65&um=1&tbnid=4OR_QLZ47qzEUM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130 > &prev=/images%3Fq%3DCabo%2BMatapalo%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26u > m%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN< > > Best to you over the long weekend. Do they make chocolate covered kayaks? > > Doug L Sorry; the correct link: http://www.capefalconkayak.com/costarica.html DL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Doug Lloyd pointed out: > Hey, I like the picture of you from Mick Allen's site: >>http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/wallpaper/download.php?image=18&pic=5< > > It's now on my monitor background. > Let's do Deception Pass sometime. Sounds like good training: > > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/outdoors/2002866793_nwwkayaks16.html Hey, I'd forgotten about that photo. There was some real intense moments on that trip. That picture was snapped just after I'd surfed in from the right and through the centre gap. I got turned around just as that monster crushed through. I came through on a baby compared to that. But the real scary part came at the end of the day. Everyone was on the way back. The guys I was with don't like rock gardens and it turns out I got seperated playing in the rocks. I mistakenly thought they were on the outside waiting for me. I'd just paddled through this one area and was watching the swells come down this intersecting channel. I waited and watched from my relatively protected side channel that was maybe 10 metres into the adjoining 30 metre surge channel. Anyway with my usual bad timing I paddled out into the channel just as an unusually high wave entered from the ocean. I was compleletly perpendicular to the oncoming wave. The channel was about 20 feet wide and the waves power was getting concentrated rather quickly. When it hit I did a high brace and was swept along racing for the barnical and rock wall at the end. Luckily the channel did not narrow or I think the bow and stern might have had a hard time of it. When the wave, me and the boat hit the wall I was doing a combination sculling and draw stroke on the port side in an effort to avoind crashing into the wall on the starboard side. It seemed like I was on an express elevator. The boat and I flew up the wall and just kissed a barnical at the top of the ride. Then just as quickly we slipped back down. On the ride down, the retreating wave, and I suppose my sculling kept the boat clear of the wall. Didn't even scratch the hull. At the bottom Iswung the bow for the enterance and paddled like mad cause half way down was the second wave. I climbed up and over and got out. I stayed out of the rocks for a good half hour after that. Inside the rock garden I had only intermittent views of my partners. Often I was so focused on the conditions that there was no time to watch to see where they were. When I popped out of the channel they were 300 metres away, backs to me and heading for home. I was a tad disappointed in that as they're always going on about staying together. I concluded staying together is one of those things with a slippery definition, you know it means different things at different times. Anyway Deception Pass has been on my list for a long time. So has Nitinat Narrows. Get healthy and we'll make plans. Gordin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin - some way cool paddling fun. Thanks for the description. I think I was playing in rock garden and surge channels my second day paddling, never looked back. Admittedly, I was fearful in those first tender years but through constant desensitization, overcame the fears and can now spend countless hours of existential bliss in these places. You do require a unique blend of both situational awareness (as expressed by your ability to take in the whole scene, including incoming hydraulics and the ability to think in tri-dimensional levels ahead of time) and tactical awareness (as expressed by appropriate strategic understanding of your immediate situation in the context of overall dynamics and more immediate changes to the volatility of the spot you are playing or planning to move to). Tactical awareness includes timely use of paddle stroke counter-maneuvers and boat edging to avoid hazards and make responsive, anticipated reactions. I notice my library of linked sites to trip reports and photographic support suggests that conditions on the west coast of Vancouver Island can vary significantly during the prime paddling seasons. Places like Brooks Peninsula can be flat calm at times, other days - wild beyond belief. Ditto Nootka Sound, though places like Nootka often give you the advantage of exposure by degree, relatively close to good camping spots. This works out well for rock garden paddlers, allowing sufficient opportunities to find the level of risk you want as you venture further out. Barkley Sound gives you close proximity to the outer islands where you can dissolve into the white froth of fun and frivolity at the base of the wilder outer sides, once experienced enough to know what buffer your threshold will allow. I hope you get paddling further afield as you skills expand and new challenges attempted to enjoy some of these more remote rock garden areas. I suggest not coming out of your boat in these spots. :-) And perhaps a little extra awareness in an SOF. Your comments of group paddling were insightful. Not sure if you know Jonathan Walpole's site, but check out some of the newer action like this one (very moderate conditions, but fun nevertheless): http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~walpole/Nootka.html Doug Lloyd > Hey, I'd forgotten about that photo. There was some real intense moments > on that trip. That picture was snapped just after I'd surfed in from the > right and through the centre gap. I got turned around just as that > monster crushed through. I came through on a baby compared to that. > > But the real scary part came at the end of the day. Everyone was on the > way back. The guys I was with don't like rock gardens and it turns out I > got seperated playing in the rocks. I mistakenly thought they were on the > outside waiting for me. I'd just paddled through this one area and was > watching the swells come down this intersecting channel. I waited and > watched from my relatively protected side channel that was maybe 10 metres > into the adjoining 30 metre surge channel. Anyway with my usual bad > timing I paddled out into the channel just as an unusually high wave > entered from the ocean. I was compleletly perpendicular to the oncoming > wave. The channel was about 20 feet wide and the waves power was getting > concentrated rather quickly. When it hit I did a high brace and was swept > along racing for the barnical and rock wall at the end. Luckily the > channel did not narrow or I think the bow and stern might have had a hard > time of it. When the wave, me and the boat hit the wall I was doing a > combination sculling and draw stroke on the port side in an effort to > avoind crashing into the wall on the starboard side. It seemed like I was > on an express elevator. The boat and I flew up the wall and just kissed a > barnical at the top of the ride. Then just as quickly we slipped back > down. On the ride down, the retreating wave, and I suppose my sculling > kept the boat clear of the wall. Didn't even scratch the hull. At the > bottom Iswung the bow for the enterance and paddled like mad cause half > way down was the second wave. I climbed up and over and got out. I > stayed out of the rocks for a good half hour after that. > > Inside the rock garden I had only intermittent views of my partners. > Often I was so focused on the conditions that there was no time to watch > to see where they were. When I popped out of the channel they were 300 > metres away, backs to me and heading for home. I was a tad disappointed > in that as they're always going on about staying together. I concluded > staying together is one of those things with a slippery definition, you > know it means different things at different times. > > Anyway Deception Pass has been on my list for a long time. So has Nitinat > Narrows. Get healthy and we'll make plans. > > Gordin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Gordin Warner wrote: > >> I'll be following up on my SOF enquires in the near future. > > The best place for these enquiries would be Qajaq USA's forum. That is > where the SOF enthusiasts are concentrated. The archives there can > probably provide many if not most of your answers and would avoid > duplication of effort on Paddlewise. > > Mike Found a good disscussion on boat abuse on the archives today. I was lead to these interesting clips (nor SOF): http://eteamz.active.com/paddleshop/albums/index.cfm?id=239260 or the same individual movies: http://eteamz.active.com/paddleshop/videos/MVI_11sm.MOV http://eteamz.active.com/paddleshop/videos/hammer2.MOV Has anyone had experience with Tideline kayaks or their paddles? Looks like a great epoxy/S-glass layup. Sounds like a good layup for big Hawaian surf or sumpn'. Description at: http://eteamz.active.com/paddleshop/news/index.cfm?cat=204763 Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> To: "Gordin Warner" <gwarner2_at_shaw.ca>; <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How tough are SOF > Gordin - some way cool paddling fun. Thanks for the description. > Not > sure if you know Jonathan Walpole's site, but check out some of the newer > action like this one (very moderate conditions, but fun nevertheless): > > http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~walpole/Nootka.html > Doug, Whoa! I'm a huge fan of Walpole's site and of course I only have two coaches S&L of BBB, both prominently feature in the above montage. Gordin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:44 PDT