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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:39:42 -0700
Couple of questions:

1. Manufactures and reviewers give maximum feet size that fit comfortably in 
their kayaks. With a sloping foredeck, doesn't the longer your legs get, the 
less accommodating the kayak becomes to a bigger foot size? Or, do all 
manufactures have an optimal, average bulkhead placement, and that's where 
the recommendation for foot placement and maximum size comes from? Also, 
maximum foot size doesn't seem to account for footwear, which can add a fair 
bit of length to your feet with some of these more aggressive water shoes 
being sold.

2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks or rear 
deck. I understand the advantages and disadvantages, but was wondering what 
the bulk of kayakers do.

Doug Lloyd
Victoria BC 
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From: James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:04:17 -0400
> 2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks  
> or rear deck. I understand the advantages and disadvantages, but  
> was wondering what the bulk of kayakers do.
>
GP goes on front deck. Its a one piece. Easier to grab if'n I screw  
up a roll or need to annoy someone by throwing it at them in a spear  
like fashion. Funny, I end up paddling alone a lot...

Jim et al
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From: Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Doug,
   
  The spare paddle on the front deck is a better combat location, but generally, I don't like to look at it there (aesthetics beats readiness sometimes). So when I have a two-piece spare or use a single blade (canoe style) spare, it goes on the back deck, where I can still reach it, albeit not as quickly. But due to the back deck being shorter than the front deck, if the spare is a one-piece paddle, such as a G-stick, it goes on the front deck, where it won't hang over the end.
   
  As for foot room, I like to paddle barefoot to maximize foot room and comfort (with a foam pad for the back of the heels). If I need to make a rocky landing, I'll put my sandals on just before landing. Sometimes when rock gardening, I'll wear low profile booties, which don't take much foot room. My Point Bennett sea kayak won't fit wearing booties that are like hiking boots.
   
  Duane
  www.rollordrown.com
  Southern California
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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 01:08:15 -0400
Doug Lloyd wrote:

> Or, do all manufactures have an optimal, average bulkhead 
> placement, and that's where the recommendation for foot placement and 
> maximum size comes from?

Most seem to place the bulkhead to fit a person 7 feet tall, making the 
cockpit way too big for normal people.  I moved the bulkhead on my 
Solstice way back when and would move the one on my current kayak, an 
Ellesmere, so I wouldn't need footpegs if only I had an appropriate 
place to do the work.

I find that with my feet - size 13 (12 1/2 UK) - I end up just pointing 
my toes further forward than most.  Very few kayaks "fit" my feet 
regardless of size.  I can't wear footwear that has any kind of heel - 
that rules out almost all running-shoe-style water shoes.

> 2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks or 
> rear deck.

I keep a Greenland storm paddle on the foredeck.  Fits nice and flat and 
is easy to grab without contortions.  immediately useful with no halves 
to put together.

Mike
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From: Leonhardt, William J <wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:10:29 -0400
 Mike,

You wrote:
> 
> Most seem to place the bulkhead to fit a person 7 feet tall, 
> making the 
> cockpit way too big for normal people.  I moved the bulkhead on my 
> Solstice way back when and would move the one on my current kayak, an 
> Ellesmere, so I wouldn't need footpegs if only I had an appropriate 
> place to do the work.
> 

How much did you move the bulkhead?  Would it have made sense to just
add a bulkhead and have a mini hatch area or did you effectively use the
longer space in the front hatch area?

Thanks,

Bill Leonhardt
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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:28:53 -0400
Leonhardt, William J wrote:

> How much did you move the bulkhead?  

About 6-8 inches.  I had to replace the sliding footpegs, since the new 
bulkhead position prevented them from sliding.  I used Seaward's 
gas-pedal style footpegs - a much better system, especially for someone 
who never uses the rudder.

> Would it have made sense to just
> add a bulkhead and have a mini hatch area or did you effectively use the
> longer space in the front hatch area?

I really got spoiled having a huge forward compartment.  I briefly 
considered making a second bulkhead, but decided that replacing the 
existing one would be more flexible for loading.

I didn't find that having more dry storage forward affected trim.

Probably the biggest problem with the setup was when I sold the Solstice 
and used my Ellesmere exclusively.  With 100 liters less total volume 
and considerably less dry storage, I had to downsize my gear.  However, 
I find I have fewer packing problems now than with the Solstice!  Less 
is more!

Mike
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From: John Horrell <seajohnkayak_at_yahoo.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] QQ: Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
i am new and missed the previous discussion on the advantages of foredeck and aftdeck placment of the spare paddle and would appreciate a summary review of the pros and cons.
  Thank you,
  john horrell
  Santa Rosa, CA 

Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote:
2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks or rear 
deck. I understand the advantages and disadvantages, but was wondering what 
the bulk of kayakers do.

Doug Lloyd
Victoria BC 

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:20:20 -0700
I've got a new carbon fiber ergonomic split paddle. I think I'll plan on
carrying it on the front deck using the pluming tubes - seems to be the savvy
way to do it.

All this light weight gear - it could be addictive.

DL

  I have a 36" inseam and size 13 feet. I paddle Nordkapp Jubilee, NDK
Poseidon, FC Khats, Explorer, Mega surf boat and a Pyranha Burn L. Footwear is
always a problem. I usually use NRS Rodeo Socks. For WW, my Burn allows Teva
river shoes of somewhat low pro cut. The portages or carryouts are sometimes
difficult with the softer sole. By the way, all the brit boats have a standard
35" bulkhead, measured from the tip of the seat.

  As for the spare paddle, I use a pair of 90 degree pipe elbows and run them
through the forward bungies. It is as surf resistant a system as I've found.
When the splits are on the back deck, I've had some, but not much more
snagging while under tow with a waist mounted belt. 2 of my boats have a
fairlead and jam cleat that usually snag the rear splits causing the initial
migration of the splits forward.

  I prefer grabbing the spare forward if the initial paddle has become lost.
My chart is not covering the blades as I removed the deck line from a pair of
recessed deck fittings that allows the chart case to slide back over my
spraydeck. Works for me.

  Cheers,

  Rob G
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 07:58:51 -0400
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:20:20 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
said:
> I've got a new carbon fiber ergonomic split paddle. I think I'll plan on
> carrying it on the front deck using the pluming tubes - seems to be the
> savvy
> way to do it.
> 
> All this light weight gear - it could be addictive.

If you are unlimited $$$ shopping.  Epic has a nice looking 7.5 to 8 kg
(16.5-18 pound) 6.5 meter (21'4") surf ski ;-)
http://www.surfski.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=390&Itemid=129

You do end up giving up little things like storage, hatches, spray
skirt, and your roll ;-)

Welcome to the lite side.  Be sure to bring your wallet....


-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: Darryl <Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:47:19 -0400
> Couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Manufactures and reviewers give maximum feet size that fit comfortably in 
> their kayaks. With a sloping foredeck, doesn't the longer your legs get, the 
> less accommodating the kayak becomes to a bigger foot size? Or, do all 
> manufactures have an optimal, average bulkhead placement, and that's where 
> the recommendation for foot placement and maximum size comes from? Also, 
> maximum foot size doesn't seem to account for footwear, which can add a fair 
> bit of length to your feet with some of these more aggressive water shoes 
> being sold.
> 
> 2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks or rear 
> deck. I understand the advantages and disadvantages, but was wondering what 
> the bulk of kayakers do.
> 
> Doug Lloyd
> Victoria BC 

I just ignored footsize and tested to see if my feet in my normal 
paddling footwear fit.

As to the spare paddle, I place mine under the bungies on the rear 
deck. That way, when a wave washes it away, I won't notice and get 
all upset.

-- 
  Darryl
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:10:09 -0700
1. No sea kayak offers the sheer foot discomfort of most white water kayaks
and one of mine (an old Dagger I bought second-hand for river running) could
be considered crippling. My feet are size US12 and I have rather long legs
but I have never paddled a sea kayak that I thought was uncomfortable for my
feet. It seems that my seated position while paddling has been affected by
my w/w days since I paddle with my knees up against the foam under the deck
and my toes pointed to the sides. That puts my tippy toes on the rudder
pedals and my knees in position to edge the kayak. I could probably move
that forward bulkhead way back but then I couldn't lay down and nap in the
cockpit.

2. When I carry a spare paddle it goes on the after deck because the
foredeck on my Nimbus Telkwa is shaped inconveniently for carrying much up
there. I don't carry a spare paddle on smaller or medium lakes unless it's
early spring with water near freezing.

By the way, I noticed recently that turning a kayak using the rudder and
pedals is almost exactly like steering a tail-dragger (airplane) down the
taxiway. Kinda cool. Edging (on the kayak, not the tail dragger) ruins the
effect though. <grin>

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA

On 4/30/07, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Couple of questions:
>
> 1. Manufactures and reviewers give maximum feet size that fit comfortably
> in
> their kayaks. With a sloping foredeck, doesn't the longer your legs get,
> the
> less accommodating the kayak becomes to a bigger foot size? Or, do all
> manufactures have an optimal, average bulkhead placement, and that's where
> the recommendation for foot placement and maximum size comes from? Also,
> maximum foot size doesn't seem to account for footwear, which can add a
> fair
> bit of length to your feet with some of these more aggressive water shoes
> being sold.
>
> 2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks or rear
> deck. I understand the advantages and disadvantages, but was wondering
> what
> the bulk of kayakers do.
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From: Jordan <jengel_at_gmavt.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:44:39 -0400 (EDT)
I haven't learned to roll yet but am pretty comfortable with solo rescue. 
So I try to keep the rear deck free.  I only keep the paddle float there
and carry the spare paddle forward.  I imagine though that even if (oops,
I mean when) I learn to roll I'll keep the back deck clear just in case.
Jordan Engel
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From: <rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 21:39:58 -0400
Just as a friendly word of caution, I've seen 2 paddlefloats stored on the rear deck unravel from waves and since both were tethered to the deck lines, the floats filled with water and pinned them to the waves. One broached and capsized. He did roll up eventually. The other broached to the seas and went, 'eeeeeeeeeeeekkkkk', and required someone to lift the bag with its water onto the deck for a quick dumping before underway again. If you carry a paddlefloat on deck, my suggestion is to put it on like you mean it to stay on deck, or secure it inside your cockpit.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: jengel_at_gmavt.net

I haven't learned to roll yet but am pretty comfortable with solo rescue. 
So I try to keep the rear deck free.  I only keep the paddle float there
and carry the spare paddle forward.  I imagine though that even if (oops,
I mean when) I learn to roll I'll keep the back deck clear just in case.
Jordan Engel
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From: <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:05:23 -0500 (CDT)
I keep mine bungied to the after bulkhead in the cockpit, where it is out
of the sun as well as out of the waves, yet easy to reach from within the
cockpit or while in the water.

Chuck Holst

> Just as a friendly word of caution, I've seen 2 paddlefloats stored on the
> rear deck unravel from waves and since both were tethered to the deck
> lines, the floats filled with water and pinned them to the waves.
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From: Leonhardt, William J <wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:56:22 -0400
You wrote regarding paddlefloats:
 
> 
> I keep mine bungied to the after bulkhead in the cockpit, 
> where it is out
> of the sun as well as out of the waves, yet easy to reach 
> from within the
> cockpit or while in the water.
> 
> Chuck Holst
> 
 
Chuck,

I think this has merit in that it keeps the float out of the sun and
possibly prolongs its life.  There is a downside however.  If someone
else had to be rescued and you wanted to loan them your paddlefloat, you
would have to undo your sprayskirt to get to the float.  If that same
person needed your float because conditions were bad and they went for a
swim, you might be reluctant to undo your skirt.  

Of course you might try other rescue techniques.  I just thought I'd
point out a down side to the under-the-skirt storage.

Bill Leonhardt
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From: <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Paddle float storage
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:49:17 -0500 (CDT)
If someone else needed help, I would do a boat-to-boat assisted rescue
rather than dig out the paddle float. As someone else pointed out, it is
faster. Alternately, I might offer my paddle for a reentry and
side-by-side Eskimo rescue, if I knew the person had practised Eskimo
rescues. (The first time I did this with my wife, when I was backed into a
corner of the pool and couldn't offer my bow, she grasped the concept --
and the paddle -- immediately and rolled up though she had never heard of
the side Eskimo rescue. Of course, she was ready to grasp at straws by
then.)

As for how I fastened the bungies to the bulkhead, I don't have any
pictures, but maybe I can create a word picture or two.

I use homemade fittings. You will need four:

1. Take a section of small-diameter, hollow, aluminum tent pole and
roughen the outside with coarse sandpaper.

2. Lay it on a heavy-duty plastic bag, wet it out with epoxy resin, and
drape fiberglass cloth over it.

3. Thoroughly saturate the cloth with the resin, cover it with clear
plastic, and lay a piece of two-by-four or a brick on either side of the
pole, flattening the cloth and snugging it up against the pole.

4. After the resin has cured, cut the pole into pieces about 3/4 inch long.

5. Trim the fiberglass, round the sharp edges with sandpaper, and roughen
the bottom of each fitting.

6. Now epoxy the fittings to the bulkhead in two pairs. In each pair, the
fittings are in line with each other, and they are aligned vertically on
the bulkhead. Leave at least 1/4 inch of space between the fitting and any
adjacent surface, such as the hull or the underside of the coaming.

7. Thread a length of small-diameter bungie cord through each pair of
fittings, knot one end, adjust the tension, and knot the other end.

8. You now have two bungie cords (shock cords, elastics) mounted
vertically on the bulkhead. Fold paddle float and insert.

Needless to say, this works best on fiberglass bulkheads.

Chuck Holst
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From: James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle float storage
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:16:14 -0400
   Kirk Olsen once gave me a golden tip on where to store a fleece  
hat for winter paddling in case I dunked and needed it fast. Stick it  
between your life vest and chest. I have had to use this before in  
real life and it worked wonderfully. A carefully folded paddle float  
could be kept the same way and would be be available in an instant. I  
think if a paddler has any trouble using/holding on to/deploying a  
paddle float they probably wont succeed in using it in real  
conditions. Their buddies will have to get them back in the saddle  
and going again. Pick your buddies wisely and keep your deck as clean  
as possible.  The only thing on my deck is a spare GP. If I break my  
Aleut or lose my grip on it I am certain that short of a broken bone  
I can remove it from under the bungies and roll up with it.  
Absolutely certain. The broken bone scenario consists of punching out  
and hoping for rescue. I should be able to walk in through the surf  
and hobble over to really hot coed, make her think I am her uncle in  
black neoprene and shorts, and hope she has a cell phone. But I  
digress...

Jim et al


> If someone else needed help, I would do a boat-to-boat assisted rescue
> rather than dig out the paddle float. As someone else pointed out,  
> it is
> faster.
> Chuck Holst
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From: Steve Cramer <cramersec_at_charter.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle float storage
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 15:16:11 -0400
James Farrelly wrote:
> The broken bone 
> scenario consists of punching out and hoping for rescue. I should be 
> able to walk in through the surf and hobble over to a really hot coed, 
> make her think I am her uncle in black neoprene and shorts, and hope she 
> has a cell phone. But I digress...

Unless there's a northerly breeze, in which case you'll hobble onto 
Myrtle Island instead of Tybee Beach, and the coed is more likely to be 
a possum.

Steve
-- 
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA
http://www.savvypaddler.com
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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle float storage
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 15:00:29 -0400
cholst_at_bitstream.net wrote:

> I use homemade fittings. You will need four:

Holy cow - you have a lot of time on your hands :-)

My approach was simpler.  My paddle float has a Fastex buckle to close 
it around the paddle shaft.  I use this to attach to the rear of the seat.

I get a matching Fastex buckle and make a loop of webbing to attach each 
half of the buckle to either side of the seat back (you could wrap the 
webbing around the seat pillar if you want.  Then I just roll up the 
paddle float and wrap it in a rubber band to keep it rolled.  Clip the 
buckle halves on the paddle float to the halves on the seat and you're 
done.

<http://www.greatlakeskayaker.ca/paddleFloatAttach.htm>

Mike
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From: mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 15:36:42 -0400 (EDT)
> I keep mine bungied to the after bulkhead in the cockpit, where it is out
> of the sun as well as out of the waves, yet easy to reach from within the
> cockpit or while in the water.

Do you have a picture of that setup? I've been thinking of doing something
like that but i'm not sure what would work best. One thought was a square
or rectangular mesh bag attched to the bulkhead some how at four corners
with the draw string opening pointing upwards.
-mike

-- 
mike Dziobak
Dept of Civil and Environmental Engineering
Michigan Technological University
1400 Townsend Dr.
870 Dow Bldg.
Houghton, MI 49931
 Tel:906-487-3471
Fax:906-487-2943
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From: Jordan Engel <jengel_at_gmavt.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:33:05 -0400
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply
including old headers and footers.  It's list policy.... 
this post was modified to meet policy]

Thanks for the warning Rob.  I've been using a solid paddle float for  
the last couple years as the thought of floating around in a raging  
sea while trying to blow up the damn thing sounded pretty daunting.
Jordan

On May 1, 2007, at 9:39 PM, rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote:

> Just as a friendly word of caution, I've seen 2 paddlefloats stored  
> on the rear deck unravel from waves and since both were tethered to  
> the deck lines, the floats filled with water and pinned them to the  
> waves. One broached and capsized. He did roll up eventually. The  
> other broached to the seas and went, 'eeeeeeeeeeeekkkkk', and  
> required someone to lift the bag with its water onto the deck for a  
> quick dumping before underway again. If you carry a paddlefloat on  
> deck, my suggestion is to put it on like you mean it to stay on  
> deck, or secure it inside your cockpit.
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From: <rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 00:30:39 -0400
I have a 36" inseam and size 13 feet. I paddle Nordkapp Jubilee, NDK Poseidon, FC Khats, Explorer, Mega surf boat and a Pyranha Burn L. Footwear is always a problem. I usually use NRS Rodeo Socks. For WW, my Burn allows Teva river shoes of somewhat low pro cut. The portages or carryouts are sometimes difficult with the softer sole. By the way, all the brit boats have a standard 35" bulkhead, measured from the tip of the seat.
 
As for the spare paddle, I use a pair of 90 degree pipe elbows and run them through the forward bungies. It is as surf resistant a system as I've found. When the splits are on the back deck, I've had some, but not much more snagging while under tow with a waist mounted belt. 2 of my boats have a fairlead and jam cleat that usually snag the rear splits causing the initial migration of the splits forward.
 
I prefer grabbing the spare forward if the initial paddle has become lost. My chart is not covering the blades as I removed the deck line from a pair of recessed deck fittings that allows the chart case to slide back over my spraydeck. Works for me.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: douglloyd_at_shaw.ca

Couple of questions: 
 
1. Manufactures and reviewers give maximum feet size that fit comfortably in their kayaks. With a sloping foredeck, doesn't the longer your legs get, the less accommodating the kayak becomes to a bigger foot size? Or, do all manufactures have an optimal, average bulkhead placement, and that's where the recommendation for foot placement and maximum size comes from? Also, maximum foot size doesn't seem to account for footwear, which can add a fair bit of length to your feet with some of these more aggressive water shoes being sold. 
 
2. Are folks locating their spare paddle halves on their foredecks or rear deck. I understand the advantages and disadvantages, but was wondering what the bulk of kayakers do. 
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From: <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:45:39 -0500 (CDT)
Like many kayakers these days, I carry a Greenland storm paddle as a spare
on my foredeck. The placement makes it easy to grab and roll up with it if
I lose my main paddle (practice!). If you do carry a storm paddle as a
spare, be sure to practice the sliding stroke until you can do it without
thinking. If your main paddle breaks or is lost, you might have to depend
on the storm paddle to get you home. Also, put a large bead on your
foremost bungie cord to hold the bungie a little off the deck and make it
easy to insert the paddle from the cockpit.

Regarding bulkheads, I was fortunate to buy a Romany Explorer that had had
the forward bulkhead moved back at the factory. (The fellow who had
ordered it had rejected it because the bulkhead was in the wrong place,
but it was just right for me.) If you can wait several months, ordering a
new kayak with a custom bulkhead placement is by far the easiest way to
go. If it weren't for the extra six inches or so, I don't think I could
get my tarp poles into the boat.

Speaking of Romanys, last weekend a 1996 Explorer went for $1775 at the
used kayak auction at Midwest Mountaineering's Outdoor Expo. It must have
been in storage most of that time, because it had hardly a scratch on it.
On the other hand, the new Romanys in the store had coamings that were set
too low to get a spray skirt under, a flaw for which I returned my first
Romany in 1995.

Chuck Holst
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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:59:19 EDT
In a message dated 5/2/2007 10:08:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,  
cholst_at_bitstream.net writes:

I keep  mine bungied to the after bulkhead in the cockpit, where it is out
of the  sun as well as out of the waves, yet easy to reach from within the
cockpit  or while in the water.

Chuck Holst



Smart place, Chuck. Mine fits perfectly in between the seat hanger and the  
hull. Out of the way but accessible.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G



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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 22:03:04 EDT
In a message dated 5/2/2007 10:59:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,  
wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov writes:

I think  this has merit in that it keeps the float out of the sun and
possibly  prolongs its life.  There is a downside however.  If someone
else  had to be rescued and you wanted to loan them your paddlefloat, you
would  have to undo your sprayskirt to get to the float.  If that same
person  needed your float because conditions were bad and they went for a
swim, you  might be reluctant to undo your skirt.  

Of course you might try  other rescue techniques.  I just thought I'd
point out a down side to  the under-the-skirt storage.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
Bill,
 
I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to sit around in bumpy water  
waiting for someone to borrow and blow up my paddlefloat to rescue themselves.  
Perhaps my pet duck Daffy can fly it into a super tight rock garden, drop it 
off  and we can all await the inevitable self-extrication, but otherwise, I'm 
in need  of some guidance here.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G



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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:12:10 -0700
On 5/2/07, Rcgibbert_at_aol.com <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to sit around in bumpy water
> waiting for someone to borrow and blow up my paddlefloat to rescue
> themselves.
> Perhaps my pet duck Daffy can fly it into a super tight rock garden, drop
> it
> off  and we can all await the inevitable self-extrication, but otherwise,
> I'm
> in need  of some guidance here.
>

I can see trained ducks becoming the "in" accessory for the rock-garden
enthusiast; somewhat like fishing with cormorants in Asia. Just watch out
during hunting season. <grin>

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA
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From: Leonhardt, William J <wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:32:56 -0400
Hi Rob,

Here's my thinking here, although I admit that the likelyhood of this
happening is small.  I don't usually paddle in rock gardens, but I have
been with groups far from shore and the weather has turned sour fast.

When I paddle, I try to take along all the gear I need as if I were
paddling alone.  I have been with groups, however, where others didn't
embrace that approach.  I could imagine a group of paddlers where a few
were in the water and I was trying to help them out.  If one of them
could do a self rescue but didn't bring a paddlefloat, I could let them
use my paddlefloat while I was helping someone else.  Even if they did
bring a paddlefloat, it could have become untethered and blown away.

Perhaps it would be better to just steady the kayak of a swimmer and let
them climb back in one at a time instead of loaning out gear and helping
people in parallel.  I don't know.

Anyway, that's what was going through my mind when I responded to Chuck.


Bill






	>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

	Bill,

	I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to sit around in
bumpy water waiting for someone to borrow and blow up my paddlefloat to
rescue themselves. Perhaps my pet duck Daffy can fly it into a super
tight rock garden, drop it off and we can all await the inevitable
self-extrication, but otherwise, I'm in need of some guidance here.

	Cheers,

	Rob G
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 22:34:17 -0700
Epic, eh? I like the Zen boat:

http://www.zensport.co.nz/net/product/details.aspx?p=8

Cool rudder option, too.

http://www.zensport.co.nz/net/product/details.aspx?p=6

So, I thought the idea of having a carbon sea kayak and converting to as 
much carbon equipment as possible was so my net weight would stay the same 
but allow me to buy and carry even more gear! :-)

DL


> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:20:20 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
> said:
>> I've got a new carbon fiber ergonomic split paddle. I think I'll plan on
>> carrying it on the front deck using the pluming tubes - seems to be the
>> savvy
>> way to do it.
>>
>> All this light weight gear - it could be addictive.
>
> If you are unlimited $$$ shopping.  Epic has a nice looking 7.5 to 8 kg
> (16.5-18 pound) 6.5 meter (21'4") surf ski ;-)
> http://www.surfski.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=390&Itemid=129
>
> You do end up giving up little things like storage, hatches, spray
> skirt, and your roll ;-)
>
> Welcome to the lite side.  Be sure to bring your wallet....
>
>
> -- 
>  Kirk Olsen
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:13:24 -0400
On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:34:17 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
said:
> Epic, eh? I like the Zen boat:
> http://www.zensport.co.nz/net/product/details.aspx?p=8

Where's the weight?  The epic I refered to was 7.5 to 8 kg.  

> Cool rudder option, too.
> 
> http://www.zensport.co.nz/net/product/details.aspx?p=6

Bulkheads?

That's looking like a drybag boat to me.  I wouldn't want to swim in
surf with a drybag boat.

I know you can tie drybags into the boat, I simply prefer sealed hull
compartments.

The zen looks like a fun go fast boat.  Are you ready to give up some
turning ability?  Although you are used to the tanker, I mean, Nordkapp.

> So, I thought the idea of having a carbon sea kayak and converting to as 
> much carbon equipment as possible was so my net weight would stay the
> same but allow me to buy and carry even more gear! :-)

Now that's not the thought process of a true go-lite weenie ;-)

If it doesn't fit in your pfd, or fanny pack it's excess.  

Sealed hull boat, tether, flares, radio/cell phone, water, food,
whistle.  What more is there ;-)

You're only a day paddler, in a populated area right....

I would have to spend time with the Epic V10E before I would trust it. 
I've owned one underbuilt boat, trusting your hull is a good thing...  

Kirk
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: Caryl Salisbury <Caryl_at_netscape.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 10:44:45 -0700
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply
including old headers and footers.  It's list policy.... 
this post was modified to meet policy]

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:20:20 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
said:
> I've got a new carbon fiber ergonomic split paddle. I think I'll plan on
> carrying it on the front deck using the pluming tubes - seems to be the
> savvy way to do it.

I'd like to stow my spare paddle on the front deck (a re-entry last year convinced me that I don't want anything on the back deck), and also limit the number of accidental scratches from the ferrule on my two-part paddle.

Does anyone have a picture or description of an earlier mention about using plumbing tubes? It sounds like that may solve both my problems.

Thanks!
-Caryl
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:52:45 -0700
Gordin's blog certainly gave a good examlpe. I'll have to play with this 
idea some more, as stated earlier. I formally liked my spare paddle on the 
rear deck, where I ran no less that three over-straps with individual Fastex 
buckles to keep the spare form shifting or dissapearing in heavy, open coat 
surf landings, etc. Made the spare halves harder to retrieve, obviously, 
especially if I had extra gear under the straps and on top of the spare 
paddle halves. Maybe the GP spare on the foredeck has merit too. A smaller 
blade area would be less likely to have the paddle rip of the deck, unlike 
two Euro paddle halves.

DL

> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:20:20 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
> said:
>> I've got a new carbon fiber ergonomic split paddle. I think I'll plan on
>> carrying it on the front deck using the pluming tubes - seems to be the
>> savvy way to do it.
>
> I'd like to stow my spare paddle on the front deck (a re-entry last year 
> convinced me that I don't want anything on the back deck), and also limit 
> the number of accidental scratches from the ferrule on my two-part paddle.
>
> Does anyone have a picture or description of an earlier mention about 
> using plumbing tubes? It sounds like that may solve both my problems.
>
> Thanks!
> -Caryl
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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:59:53 EDT
In a message dated 5/3/2007 5:41:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,  
wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov writes:

Here's  my thinking here, although I admit that the likelyhood of this
happening is  small.  I don't usually paddle in rock gardens, but I have
been with  groups far from shore and the weather has turned sour fast.

When I  paddle, I try to take along all the gear I need as if I were
paddling  alone.  I have been with groups, however, where others didn't
embrace  that approach.  I could imagine a group of paddlers where a few
were  in the water and I was trying to help them out.  If one of them
could  do a self rescue but didn't bring a paddlefloat, I could let them
use my  paddlefloat while I was helping someone else.  Even if they did
bring  a paddlefloat, it could have become untethered and blown away.

Perhaps  it would be better to just steady the kayak of a swimmer and let
them climb  back in one at a time instead of loaning out gear and helping
people in  parallel.  I don't know.

Anyway, that's what was going through my  mind when I responded to Chuck.




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
If you take more than a minute to execute a complete assisted rescue, it  
should be further practiced. In an 'All In' rescue, your equipment could help  
someone else out, however, why risk carrying it in a place where it is far  
likelier to do harm than what you intended it for? By assisting someone else you  
are holding onto that boat, so no additional need for stability. If the 3rd 
car  in the train wreck is close enough for you to be distributing equipment to 
like  some aquatic quartermaster, can't they just swim their boat over to you 
to wait  for the other guy to finish? A paddlefloat rescue takes forever and a 
day as it  is, compared to an assisted rescue. Just pull the deck back a bit 
and get the  float and hand it to him in the odd case that with a paddlefloat 
he can be  faster than you completing your rescue.
 
I like gear, trust me on that. However, gear has as much potential to  harm 
as it does to do good. This is especially true if you insist on carrying it  on 
deck, where it can fail or trip you much more reliably than satisfying the  
odd rescue scenario.
 
By the way, that person that went ' eeeeekkk' because her paddlefloat  
slipped off her deckline, filled with water and became a drogue, pinning her to  the 
waves, a position she was unable to get herself out of, I asked her what she  
was doing when I saw her wrapping it around her decklines prior to launch. 
She  saw some video and it extolled the virtues of doing so. I asked her if she  
thought we would all be waiting around watching her do a paddlefloat rescue. 
She  still insisted. I asked her to make sure it doesn't come off. I was given 
one of  those 'looks'. Well, ok.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G



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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:45:30 -0700
Yes, I realize the Zen isn't a sit-on-top surf ski. But not everyone lives 
in California, Hawaii, or South Africa. :-)

I take it surf skis are fast due to waterline length and narrow width. I 
find I can keep up fine with most paddlers in longer kayaks that my Nordkapp 
(longer waterline) but I do get tired by the end of a long day keeping pace. 
Some boats I can't pass, like a Seda Glider, despite valiant efforts. 
However, once seas and wind build significantly, I can run circles around 
these guys in my kayak.

I like the idea of going lighter; maybe I should pick up a plastic Tempest 
locally, cheap, for rock garden play. Problem is, I like to rock garden play 
on remote trips, with all my gear aboard. Kayaks are so specific. It is hard 
to find a boat that can do it all.

The new P&H boats look promising. The new Cetus even has a sandwich hatch on 
the foredeck like I designed into my Nordkapp. Hopefully a Cetus LV will 
come out one day. Check out the cool black Carbon/Kevlar P&H at the bottom.

http://www.savannahcanoeandkayak.com/p&h%20sea%20kayaks.htm

As you can tell, I'm at a crossroads with sea kayaking right now, in terms 
of design, construction, and fitness paddling vs play vs tripping. Duane 
certainly comes up with his own homemade boats that I assume perform well 
(not sure if he kept the Elsmere that he modified with a longer skeg portion 
on the keel). I could build a very nice marine ply/glass boat faster than a 
strip, well budgeted, and maybe built it like the Betsy Bay boys do, with 
stronger epoxy fillets at the chines. I'd build mine with more glass layers 
though.

Thing is, I also know paddlers who have built ply boats, them moved on to 
strip built, then finally just bought a fiberglass kayak. (To me, SOF's are 
for fun rolling and other traditional pursuits).

Doug L



> On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:34:17 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
> said:
>> Epic, eh? I like the Zen boat:
>> http://www.zensport.co.nz/net/product/details.aspx?p=8
>
> Where's the weight?  The epic I refered to was 7.5 to 8 kg.
>
>> Cool rudder option, too.
>>
>> http://www.zensport.co.nz/net/product/details.aspx?p=6
>
> Bulkheads?
>
> That's looking like a drybag boat to me.  I wouldn't want to swim in
> surf with a drybag boat.
>
> I know you can tie drybags into the boat, I simply prefer sealed hull
> compartments.
>
> The zen looks like a fun go fast boat.  Are you ready to give up some
> turning ability?  Although you are used to the tanker, I mean, Nordkapp.
>
>> So, I thought the idea of having a carbon sea kayak and converting to as
>> much carbon equipment as possible was so my net weight would stay the
>> same but allow me to buy and carry even more gear! :-)
>
> Now that's not the thought process of a true go-lite weenie ;-)
>
> If it doesn't fit in your pfd, or fanny pack it's excess.
>
> Sealed hull boat, tether, flares, radio/cell phone, water, food,
> whistle.  What more is there ;-)
>
> You're only a day paddler, in a populated area right....
>
> I would have to spend time with the Epic V10E before I would trust it.
> I've owned one underbuilt boat, trusting your hull is a good thing...
>
> Kirk
> -- 
>  Kirk Olsen
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 08:22:20 -0400
On Thu, 03 May 2007 20:45:30 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
said:
> Yes, I realize the Zen isn't a sit-on-top surf ski. But not everyone
> lives in California, Hawaii, or South Africa. :-)

I'm in Massachusetts.  Water temp is up to 47 fahrenheit, 8 celsius. 
I've been on the water for about 6 weeks.  Some of the other surf ski
paddlers only skipped February.  2 weeks ago we spent a couple hours in
nauset inlet(cape cod) surfing the 3 foot waves where the outgoing inlet
current made nice steep waves (wave faces were above the top paddle
blade and head of my paddling companion).  With the surf ski you are
more likely to dress for immersion since there's frequently water in the
cockpit area, the venturi bailers work great so the cockpit drains
quickly.

> I take it surf skis are fast due to waterline length and narrow width. 

That's pretty much it.  Boat weights are also low.  The "winner" of the
paddling division for this years watertribe everglades challege was on a
surf ski - 303 miles in 3 days 2 hours.
http://race.fit2paddle.com/C741445042/E20070314202642/index.html  At the
very end of the article he concedes a strong sea kayaker should be able
to beat his time - the stability of a sea kayak may be more advantageous
than the faster hull speed of his racing surf ski.
  
> find I can keep up fine with most paddlers in longer kayaks that my
> Nordkapp (longer waterline) but I do get tired by the end of a long day keeping
> pace.  Some boats I can't pass, like a Seda Glider, despite valiant efforts. 
> However, once seas and wind build significantly, I can run circles around 
> these guys in my kayak.

That's because with a 100+ pound boat the wind can't move you ;-)
 
> I like the idea of going lighter; maybe I should pick up a plastic
> Tempest locally, cheap, for rock garden play. Problem is, I like to rock garden
> play on remote trips, with all my gear aboard. Kayaks are so specific. It is
> hard to find a boat that can do it all.

No boat can do it all.  The 3 or 4 boat quiver gets closer...  The quick
turning bullet proof rock garden boat/rolling machine, the 2 week
tripping boat, and the lightweight deep water downwind run boats just
don't seem to overlap.  As a rough water or go-fast fitness paddler I
definitely have my bias.  For me storage is not in the top 10
requirements, and I've chosen the option of going 7+ knots over being
able to spend time in a rock garden.  

> The new P&H boats look promising. The new Cetus even has a sandwich hatch
> on the foredeck like I designed into my Nordkapp. Hopefully a Cetus LV will 
> come out one day. Check out the cool black Carbon/Kevlar P&H at the
> bottom.
> 
> http://www.savannahcanoeandkayak.com/p&h%20sea%20kayaks.htm

That is definitely a cool looking boat.  The 22" beam sounds more like a
fishing platform (from my highly biased stupidly tippy perspective). 
Although if I wanted a tripping boat that would definitely be on my
short list to demo.

> As you can tell, I'm at a crossroads with sea kayaking right now, in
> terms of design, construction, and fitness paddling vs play vs tripping. Duane 
> certainly comes up with his own homemade boats that I assume perform well 
> (not sure if he kept the Elsmere that he modified with a longer skeg
> portion on the keel). I could build a very nice marine ply/glass boat faster than
> a strip, well budgeted, and maybe built it like the Betsy Bay boys do, with 
> stronger epoxy fillets at the chines. I'd build mine with more glass
> layers though.

Knowing of your woodworking skills (we'll ignore those finger incidents
;-)
I'm very surprised you haven't built a plywood/glass boat.  I would
think you could 
crank one out quickly.

Kirk
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage/boat widths
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 06:54:27 -0700
Uh oh, the beam on my boat's 23.5". Must be a gargage scow!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirk Olsen

> That is definitely a cool looking boat.  The 22" beam sounds more like a
> fishing platform (from my highly biased stupidly tippy perspective). 
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage/boat widths
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:19:19 -0400
On Fri, 4 May 2007 06:54:27 -0700, "Mark Sanders" <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
said:
> > From: Kirk Olsen
> > That is definitely a cool looking boat.  The 22" beam sounds more like a
> > fishing platform (from my highly biased stupidly tippy perspective). 

> Uh oh, the beam on my boat's 23.5". Must be a gargage scow!

Naah, that's a photography platform, you could probably mount a camera
mast on it ;-)

http://vidshadow.com/video_player.asp?videoid=3039



-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 23:41:05 -0700
Kirk said (snip):
> I'm in Massachusetts.  Water temp is up to 47 fahrenheit, 8 celsius.
> I've been on the water for about 6 weeks.  Some of the other surf ski
> paddlers only skipped February.  2 weeks ago we spent a couple hours in
> nauset inlet(cape cod) surfing the 3 foot waves where the outgoing inlet
> current made nice steep waves (wave faces were above the top paddle
> blade and head of my paddling companion).  With the surf ski you are
> more likely to dress for immersion since there's frequently water in the
> cockpit area, the venturi bailers work great so the cockpit drains
> quickly.
>

Okay, okay! I'm impressed. :-)

But how do you stay on top of a surf ski? I can't imagine life without thigh 
braces. Or is it like riding a bike - just keep moving forward?

These guys seem to be doing okay:

http://www.surfskischool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=2

>> The new P&H boats look promising. The new Cetus even has a sandwich hatch
>> on the foredeck like I designed into my Nordkapp. Hopefully a Cetus LV 
>> will
>> come out one day. Check out the cool black Carbon/Kevlar P&H at the
>> bottom.
>>
>> http://www.savannahcanoeandkayak.com/p&h%20sea%20kayaks.htm
>
> That is definitely a cool looking boat.  The 22" beam sounds more like a
> fishing platform (from my highly biased stupidly tippy perspective).
> Although if I wanted a tripping boat that would definitely be on my
> short list to demo.

Surf ski paddlers are a narrow-minded lot, aren't they? :-)

I suppose North American manufactures will continue to come out with more 
and more "Brit" style boats too, both play-sized and expedition-volumed. I 
see Nimbus has a new one coming out (Ice Kap) that I first saw on Sterling 
Donalson's site:

http://sterlingskayak.com/Manufacturing.shtml

>> As you can tell, I'm at a crossroads with sea kayaking right now, in
>> terms of design, construction, and fitness paddling vs play vs tripping. 
>> Duane
>> certainly comes up with his own homemade boats that I assume perform well
>> (not sure if he kept the Elsmere that he modified with a longer skeg
>> portion on the keel). I could build a very nice marine ply/glass boat 
>> faster than
>> a strip, well budgeted, and maybe built it like the Betsy Bay boys do, 
>> with
>> stronger epoxy fillets at the chines. I'd build mine with more glass
>> layers though.
>
> Knowing of your woodworking skills (we'll ignore those finger incidents
> ;-)
> I'm very surprised you haven't built a plywood/glass boat.  I would
> think you could
> crank one out quickly.

Yeah...still affraid of chine damage and paddelability without the hull 
section profile I'm used to. Hey, I think digitus-longevitus should be aided 
now that I have oxygen flowing to the brain again and good hemodynamic 
perfusion, though I did opt for the pig valve to negate blood thinner use - 
given that I'll still be woodworking. :-)

BTW, I did consider prepreg nomex for a possible self-built Nordkapp, but my 
kitchen oven won't fit the full length for curing.

And, the other alternative, epoxy infusion, seems awefully daunting and a 
poor economy for a one-time build.

Doug L
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 09:53:34 -0400
On Fri, 04 May 2007 23:41:05 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
said:
> Kirk said (snip):
> > I'm in Massachusetts.  I've been on the water for about 6 weeks. 
> 
> Okay, okay! I'm impressed. :-)

My point was it's not just a warm weather boat.  "Impressing" you was a
bonus ;-)
 
> But how do you stay on top of a surf ski? I can't imagine life without
> thigh  braces. Or is it like riding a bike - just keep moving forward?

It's more difficult - the transition is tough from a decked kayak - much
easier from an open
canoe.  I balance by pushing down on the opposite butt cheek instead of
pulling up with the onside knee.

> http://www.surfskischool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=2

http://www.surfski.info has some links to some good videos.

> > That is definitely a cool looking boat.  The 22" beam sounds more like a
> > fishing platform (from my highly biased stupidly tippy perspective).
> > Although if I wanted a tripping boat that would definitely be on my
> > short list to demo.
> 
> Surf ski paddlers are a narrow-minded lot, aren't they? :-)

To push discussion being a highly biased is useful..

> I suppose North American manufactures will continue to come out with more 
> and more "Brit" style boats too, both play-sized and expedition-volumed.
> I  see Nimbus has a new one coming out (Ice Kap) that I first saw on
> Sterling 
> Donalson's site:
> 
> http://sterlingskayak.com/Manufacturing.shtml

One of the people on the surf ski mailing list recently lamented that
the North American market is 5 to 8 years behind the southern hemisphere
in terms of what was available for performance boats - for both
multisport racing and surf skis.  There are rotomolded surf skis
available in Australia and South Africa, none that I'm aware of in the
northern hemisphere.  Most of the rotomolded sit no tops in north
america seem to be geared toward the fishing market.  It would be nice
to see an inexpensive quasi performance sit on top.
 
> Yeah...still affraid of chine damage and paddelability without the hull 
> section profile I'm used to. Hey, I think digitus-longevitus should be
> aided now that I have oxygen flowing to the brain again and good hemodynamic 
> perfusion, though I did opt for the pig valve to negate blood thinner use
> - given that I'll still be woodworking. :-)

Build yourself a hard chine boat and beat the crap out of it on one of
your local walk out padde spots
to see if you trust it.

> BTW, I did consider prepreg nomex for a possible self-built Nordkapp, but
> my kitchen oven won't fit the full length for curing.

I've got a local kayak company with a prepreg nomex system.  If you have
a similar company in your area it might be possible to rent time using
it, if they have some downtime.  I'll be demoing one of their kayaks
this afternoon - I hope the water's lumpy ;-)

Kirk
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 08:24:31 -0700
I would think it would only take a hint of oilcanning to turn a rotomolded
surfski into a sea-going corkscrew.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
> [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Kirk Olsen
> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:54 AM
> To: Doug Lloyd; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Happy feet/ spare paddle storage
>
>
There are rotomolded surf skis available in Australia and South Africa, none
that I'm aware of in the northern hemisphere.  Most of the rotomolded sit no
tops in north america seem to be geared toward the fishing market.  It would
be nice to see an inexpensive quasi performance sit on top.
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