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From: Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:56:31 -0700
It seems that a goretex drysuit is going to be necessary. Goretex so  
that I can use it in the summer and drysuit because it is... dry.

Kayak Academy ( http://www.kayakacademy.com/  and the FAQ page http:// 
www.kayakacademy.com/drysuitfaq.html#ten ) has a lot to say about  
drysuits and highly recommends ( and sells ) Kokatat and it's much  
cheaper sibling Tropos. I've heard the name Palm and NRS as well.

I'm trying to keep the pain of this purchase under $500-ish, but I  
don't want to end up with something inferior. I don't plan on doing  
any Arctic exploration, mostly lake and sea around the Northwest. I  
tend to think that the models with neoprene neck gaskets are not  
going to do the trick because I plan on rolling and doing self rescue  
practices frequently. So probably the Kokatat Super Nova wouldn't  
work for me.

There is also the cheaper route of going with bibs and dry top. I'm  
not sure if this is a flexible set up ( a good thing ) or inferior to  
a drysuit ( a bad thing ).

Any recommendations on these or any other products I've missed? Your  
comments are appreciated!

Paul Montgomery
paul_at_paddleandoar.com
http://paddleandoar.com
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From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:33:19 -0700
Paul,

My Goretex dry top (semidry top) has a neoprene punch through neck rather
than a latex gasket like the wrists. It is totally dry when rolling. Nothing
gets down the neck.

Works fine for me in water down to low 50's which is the coldest I've
paddled.

Steve Holtzman
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From: Joyce Family <tfj4_at_comcast.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:53:00 -0500
Paul:  Since you asked for some feedback, here goes.  I don't have much
experience with a variety of dry/wet suits.  I have a goretex tuilik for
light paddling and a Kokatat dry suit for colder water.  I thought the
Kokatat a little extravagant when I bought it initially and gulped at the
price, but something like that only made sense in Alaska.  I now find that I
use it under much more benign conditions and am glad to have it.  For
example, last Sunday I was out in Lake Michigan in a small craft advisory,
with air and water temps in the 40's and 50's--hardly arctic--but I was
rolling unexpectedly and paddling through heavy surf and I felt snug as a
bug in my dry suit.  If you paddle for many seasons, the investment pays for
itself in my view.  [I don't mean to single out Kokatat above other quality
gear.  It's just what I have.] 

Tom
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From: Darryl <Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:40:38 -0400
> It seems that a goretex drysuit is going to be necessary. Goretex so  
> that I can use it in the summer and drysuit because it is... dry.
> 
> Kayak Academy ( http://www.kayakacademy.com/  and the FAQ page http:// 
> www.kayakacademy.com/drysuitfaq.html#ten ) has a lot to say about  
> drysuits and highly recommends ( and sells ) Kokatat and it's much  
> cheaper sibling Tropos. I've heard the name Palm and NRS as well.
> 
> I'm trying to keep the pain of this purchase under $500-ish, but I  
> don't want to end up with something inferior. I don't plan on doing  
> any Arctic exploration, mostly lake and sea around the Northwest. I  
> tend to think that the models with neoprene neck gaskets are not  
> going to do the trick because I plan on rolling and doing self rescue  
> practices frequently. So probably the Kokatat Super Nova wouldn't  
> work for me.
> 
> There is also the cheaper route of going with bibs and dry top. I'm  
> not sure if this is a flexible set up ( a good thing ) or inferior to  
> a drysuit ( a bad thing ).
> 
> Any recommendations on these or any other products I've missed? Your  
> comments are appreciated!
> 
> Paul Montgomery


In addition to the Reed-Chillcheater products that have been 
mentioned, there is also another British company, Ravenspring, who 
make a nice drysuit. Not Gortex, but breathable. I have one, now 
three years old and still looking like new (although I only wear it 
in the early spring and late fall), and I have two friends who also 
have ones that are a few years older and still in good shape. They 
ship the suits over to N. America for a reasonable charge (I think 
you can chose between expedited shipped for a slightly higher fee or 
surface shipping to save a bit.)

They do custom fits at no added charge (or at least, they did). Send 
in your measurements and they determine whether a "standard" size 
will fit or whether they need to make one up to fit. Same price. They 
do charge extra for relief zippers and/or integral booties.

    www.ravenspring.co.uk/system/index.html

HTH,
-- 
  Darryl
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:06:04 -0700
On 5/22/07, Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com> wrote:
>
> It seems that a goretex drysuit is going to be necessary. Goretex so
> that I can use it in the summer and drysuit because it is... dry.



There are other breathable fabrics than Goretex and most of them are less
expensive. The chillcheaters use a fabric that's breathable.


> There is also the cheaper route of going with bibs and dry top. I'm
> not sure if this is a flexible set up ( a good thing ) or inferior to
> a drysuit ( a bad thing ).


If you have a good, reliable roll you can just paddle with the dry top like
most white water paddlers do. A good skill set that can actually save you
money. However there are times in both w/w and sea kayaking when you can't
roll back upright and must exit. On a river the bank (or a rock) is usually
pretty close once you wash out of the rapid that tipped you over. This is
often not true when sea kayaking. So it only makes sense to wear some
thermal protection for the rest of your body.

I have found that wearing a farmer john for long periods of time is
uncomfortable. A wet suit must conform closely to the body's contours in
order to keep you warm in the water and while this is a great idea in cold
water it's not that great while sitting in a cockpit for hours. At least
it's not for me.

An F/J will protect your body from sharp pointy things better than almost
anything up to kevlar body armour.

On warm summer days I found wearing an F/J very uncomfortable and I would
try to divest myself of garments to alleviate the heat buildup. Taking off
your PFD and top to cool off while paddling across 50 degree water is
probably not the most sensible thing to do but neither is dying of heat
stroke.

Putting on a wetsuit in the morning is no fun. Especially if you wore it all
day yesterday. And the day before that. Putting on a drysuit is funny to
everyone watching but it's usually not cold and clammy. And, if you are
wearing good layers underneath, it's actually comfy.

A drysuit will keep you comfortable across a much wider range of air
temperatures and makes a dandy windbreaker. How warm you stay when submerged
in cold water depends upon what you are wearing under it. An F/J prefers
that you wear nothing under it. If you have a drysuit you will also need to
invest in the layers of clothing to wear under it. Good polypro is not
cheap. There's always Goodwill.

You can wear a drysuit all day on the beach if you want; or in the car
driving to another place to paddle; or even home after you're too worn out
to take the thing off. The F/J (or any wetsuit) isn't as comfortable to wear
and I used to take mine off as soon as I could.

Peeing is no fun in an F/J cuz you have to strip it down to your waist
(brrrrr!) and then (argh!) put it back on. (Of course there is an
alternative since it does, after all, absorb water.) Nor is it fun in a
drysuit without the appropriate appurtenances; but a drysuit with the relief
zippers can make it well worth the extra money on a long trip. A drysuit
with a good set of Depends works too as long as you have an unshakable ego.

I have a F/J in the closet at the lake house. I tried it on last summer and
I don't think I've worn it in a long, long time... cuz it shrunk so much I
couldn't get into it. Hmmm.

If you buy a F/J and a drytop and continue to paddle regularly you will
almost certainly buy a drysuit eventually; maybe soon. But if you won't
paddle much after this trip, or if you will only paddle on warm water then
just a drytop and the F/J will probably do the job at the lowest cost. If
you paddle a lot the most versatile arrangement is a quiver of paddle
clothing consisting of drytop, waterski wetsuit shorty, F/J, drysuit bibs, a
drysuit, a hood and enough polypro layers to make a Big5 manager envious.
For only about $1k you'll be ready for anything.

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA
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From: Gary J. MacDonald <garyj_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:02:25 -0400
Do not worry about it.  
A minor expense for a replacement every few years--much like any other 
consumable.
The other side is the freedom of action in all kinds of temperatures 
that comes with a dry suit.  
Cheap at the price.
Do you refuse to buy a car because it will need new tires in the future?

GaryJ

Bradford R. Crain wrote:

>   Have "they" invented the indestructable permanent neck gasket yet?
> (It's not the Gortex I'm worried about.)
>
> Brad Crain 
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] summer wear revisited
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 15:59:33 -0700
   Actually I ride a bike to work. They park so much easier than a car.
After numerous flat tires, I finally tested Kevlar tires. So far, so good.
As for car tires, I expect to get 40,000 miles, thanks to Les Schwab,
which should equate to about 10 years of driving (two vehicles).
   I don't worry about the price of a dry suit, but I don't want to
experience material failure out in the middle of nowhere. Besides,
the water out here is damn cold, and I ain't no harbor seal.

BRC

Quoting "Gary J. MacDonald" <garyj_at_rogers.com>:

> Do not worry about it.  A minor expense for a replacement every few
> years--much like any other consumable.
> The other side is the freedom of action in all kinds of temperatures
> that comes with a dry suit.  Cheap at the price.
> Do you refuse to buy a car because it will need new tires in the future?
>
> GaryJ
>
> Bradford R. Crain wrote:
>
>>  Have "they" invented the indestructable permanent neck gasket yet?
>> (It's not the Gortex I'm worried about.)
>>
>> Brad Crain
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