FYI - this longish message is aimed particularly at those of us in Texas, but noting the NOAA reference, here's hoping there are requests for public input at other of our nation's coasts. Seems to me you folks in other states where the beach isn't owned by the public to the vegetation line might want to have your voices heard, so you can be more progressive like us Texans. Might I suggest your bullet-proof vests under your PFDs if you're going to some of those meetings. Maybe I'll wear mine too, well, if I had one... Let your voices be heard; let our beaches be public! My two cents... Natalie Wiest Galveston Bay Information Center, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Ben Rhame [mailto:Ben.Rhame_at_GLO.STATE.TX.US] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:33 PM To: Ben Rhame Subject: Envisioning the Future of Coastal Management **Please Forward** Dear Colleague, The Texas Coastal Management Program (CMP) is pleased to invite you to participate in a nation-wide process to improve the way the coasts are managed. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the Coastal States Organization (CSO) recently embarked on a joint initiative to solicit ideas for improving the Coastal Zone Management Act. To ensure the perspectives of Texas stakeholders are represented, the CMP will host meetings at the following dates and locations. June 12, 2007 - (5:30 to 8:00 PM) Texas A&M University at Galveston, Classroom Laboratory Building, Room 100, 200 Seawolf Parkway, Galveston, Texas 77554 June 26, 2007 - (5:30 to 8:00 PM) Texas A&M University at Corpus Christi, Carlos R. Truan Natural Resources Center, Room 1003, 6300 Ocean Drive, Corpus Christi, Texas 78412 The meetings are designed to solicit innovative ideas that we will provide to CSO and NOAA to help shape legislation being submitted to Congress later this year. During the meetings, we will present NOAA and CSOs joint initiative, "Envisioning the Future of Coastal Management", followed by facilitated comment sessions. We want to gather your success stories, best management practices, and innovative solutions for how coastal management can be better. Topics will include: Coastal Issues - What are the most important challenges now and in the future? Current Policies and Programs - What works? What doesn't? Solutions - What new, innovative approaches will move coastal management forward? How can we improve the Coastal Zone Management Act? What tools are needed to build strong coastal communities and healthy coasts? Setting Goals and Measuring Success - How can we ensure that management approaches are effective? The meetings are open to the general public, so please forward this invitation to anyone you feel may have an interest in coastal management. To allow us to better prepare for the meetings, please notify Ben Rhame at (512) 936-6447 or ben.rhame_at_glo.state.tx.us if you plan to attend. If you are unable to attend, you are welcome to submit your comments via the web. Additional information about the Envisioning project and submitting on-line comments can be found at http://coastalmanagement.noaa.gov/czm/czma_vision.html. We hope that you will be able to join us and look forward to your participation. Sincerely, Ben Rhame Texas General Land Office Coastal Resources 1700 N. Congress Ave. Room #340 Austin, TX 78748 Phone: 512-936-6447 Fax: 512-475-0680 ben.rhame_at_glo.state.tx.us *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As many of you already know, the tidal shorelines in Washington are private property, all the way to the water's edge. Makes it difficult to get out of your kayak. BRC Quoting Natalie Wiest <wiestn_at_tamug.edu>: > FYI - this longish message is aimed particularly at those of us in > Texas, but noting the NOAA reference, here's hoping there are requests > for public input at other of our nation's coasts. Seems to me you folks > in other states where the beach isn't owned by the public to the > vegetation line might want to have your voices heard, so you can be more > progressive like us Texans. Might I suggest your bullet-proof vests > under your PFDs if you're going to some of those meetings. > > > > Maybe I'll wear mine too, well, if I had one... > > > > Let your voices be heard; let our beaches be public! My two cents... > > > > Natalie Wiest > > Galveston Bay Information Center, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bradford wrote: >>>>>>>As many of you already know, the tidal shorelines in Washington are private property, all the way to the water's edge. Makes it difficult to get out of your kayak.<<<<<<< This is not correct for many if not most of the beaches of WA. And where Bradford is correct, it is usually the average high tide line (approximately the log line) that is the border between public beach and private property. So the public beach is legally available to kayakers for landing most of the time except high tide. In fact, I think most of the beaches below the high tide line are public in WA. The Dept. of Natural Resources has some booklets for the San Juan Islands (and also a map of the islands) and the Straits of Juan de Fuca (and maybe more) that show which beaches fall into which category and even with arial photos of where the boundries between the various "jurisdictions" or "types of ownership" are. I think the title (or subtitle) of the booklets was "Your Public Beaches". Of course, the upland property owners often believe (or pretend to believe) that they also own the beach. This (and the need for shoreline toilet facilities) has caused kayakers to be seen as undesirable vermin in the San Juan Islands. As a result residents have done what they can to reduce the number of put-ins available for kayakers in those islands whenever they could. They have been quite successful in that endeavor. Most of the traditional put-ins near ferry docks that were available in the 1980's have been eliminated so paddlers need to drive on the ferries rather than just wheel their boats on them (as we used to do) in order to get on the water from all the islands except San Juan Island. On San Juan Island (the last time I tried anyhow) one needed to wheel ones kayak a few blocks to a marina to launch. This has been quite a disappointing experience for me When I started paddling most residents considered the few kayakers as interesting visitors. This probably has some parallels with the European invasion of Norht America and the changing attitude of the Natives as numbers of Europeans increased and began abusing the land and competing for resourses. I recently saw a great poster of famous picture of Geronimo with a grim expression on his face and a rifle under the caption "Fighting Terrorism since 1492". Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 02:17:06 -0700, "Matt Broze" <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com> said: > This is not correct for many if not most of the beaches of WA. And where > Bradford is correct, it is usually the average high tide line > (approximately the log line) that is the border between public beach and private > property. So the public beach is legally available to kayakers for landing most of > the time except high tide. Public access and property laws vary across the united states. In Massachusetts the property owners own to the LOW tide line. You can only legally walk the beach if you have a fishing rod - a fine antiquated law. From what I've heard Colorado has the worst access laws in the US. The property owner owns the stream beds and the air above the water - this is my recollection and far from definitive. > As a result residents have done what they can to reduce the > number of put-ins available for kayakers in those islands whenever they > could. They have been quite successful in that endeavor. Access definitely varies by town. In Orleans Massachusetts (on cape cod) there are 37 public landings, which I find phenomenal for a single town. 30+ town landings has the advantage of distributing the load so no one area is overwhelmed. I haven't the slightest idea how Orleans came to have so many public landings, having that many launch sites is wonderful. Kirk -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I won't try to refute or agree with what Matt said, since I have never researched this topic and do not live in Washington. But I will relate an incident when a group of us form the Portland, Oregon area were paddling near Boston Harbor in Puget Sound, and were getting pounded by some nasty opposing tidal flows, surges, and wind. Our group was of mixed abilities, and we sought refuge on a nearby beach. Upon landing, a person came running down to the water's edge, yelling and screaming, demanding that we re-enter the maelstrom immediately and die. I will never forget that day. BRC > Bradford wrote: > >>>>>>>>As many of you already know, the tidal shorelines in Washington are > private property, all the way to the water's edge. Makes it difficult to > get > out of your kayak.<<<<<<< > > This is not correct for many if not most of the beaches of WA. And where > Bradford is correct, it is usually the average high tide line > (approximately > the log line) that is the border between public beach and private > property. > So the public beach is legally available to kayakers for landing most of > the > time except high tide. In fact, I think most of the beaches below the high > tide line are public in WA. The Dept. of Natural Resources has some > booklets > for the San Juan Islands (and also a map of the islands) and the Straits > of > Juan de Fuca (and maybe more) that show which beaches fall into which > category and even with arial photos of where the boundries between the > various "jurisdictions" or "types of ownership" are. I think the title (or > subtitle) of the booklets was "Your Public Beaches". > > Of course, the upland property owners often believe (or pretend to > believe) > that they also own the beach. This (and the need for shoreline toilet > facilities) has caused kayakers to be seen as undesirable vermin in the > San > Juan Islands. As a result residents have done what they can to reduce the > number of put-ins available for kayakers in those islands whenever they > could. They have been quite successful in that endeavor. Most of the > traditional put-ins near ferry docks that were available in the 1980's > have > been eliminated so paddlers need to drive on the ferries rather than just > wheel their boats on them (as we used to do) in order to get on the water > from all the islands except San Juan Island. On San Juan Island (the last > time I tried anyhow) one needed to wheel ones kayak a few blocks to a > marina > to launch. This has been quite a disappointing experience for me When I > started paddling most residents considered the few kayakers as interesting > visitors. This probably has some parallels with the European invasion of > Norht America and the changing attitude of the Natives as numbers of > Europeans increased and began abusing the land and competing for > resourses. > I recently saw a great poster of famous picture of Geronimo with a grim > expression on his face and a rifle under the caption "Fighting Terrorism > since 1492". > > Matt Broze > www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
So what happened? Even if it was private land I think that the "Any port in a storm" ethic should have applied in your case. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com -----Original Message----- From: Bradford_Crain [mailto:crainb_at_pdx.edu] I won't try to refute or agree with what Matt said, since I have never researched this topic and do not live in Washington. But I will relate an incident when a group of us form the Portland, Oregon area were paddling near Boston Harbor in Puget Sound, and were getting pounded by some nasty opposing tidal flows, surges, and wind. Our group was of mixed abilities, and we sought refuge on a nearby beach. Upon landing, a person came running down to the water's edge, yelling and screaming, demanding that we re-enter the maelstrom immediately and die. I will never forget that day. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Clearly, he must have percieved you to be one of those terrorists. 6/3 19:15 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Bradford_Crain > Upon landing, a person came running down to the water's edge, > yelling and > screaming, demanding that we re-enter the maelstrom immediately > and die. I > will never > forget that day. > > BRC > -----Original Message----- > > I recently saw a great poster of famous picture of Geronimo with a grim > > expression on his face and a rifle under the caption "Fighting Terrorism > > since 1492". > > > > Matt Broze > > www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 6/1/07, Bradford_Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu> wrote: > > > Our group was of mixed abilities, and we sought refuge on a nearby > beach. > Upon landing, a person came running down to the water's edge, yelling > and > screaming, demanding that we re-enter the maelstrom immediately and die. > I > will never forget that day. > > My standard reply in situations like this is to demand that they go ahead and "call a cop". Most police officers have no clue about land use laws but they can recognize a dangerous situation. It's much easier to reason with cop than a storm front. Many landowners either assume that they own all the land they can see or they assume you don't know anyway. My next door neighbor has decided that a stake marking the "meander line" of the lake is his corner marker and is trying to say that we are on 20 feet of his property. I just smile at him. I've looked at the plat maps (one of my clients is a land survey and engineering firm) and I'm comfortable but every now and then I see him with a tape measure in his hand clambering over the fence to double check what he thinks are the measurements of his lot. When I actually did surveys for a living many years ago (as a youth) I watched landowners come down and move offsets for a right-of-way because they "know" that isn't the edge of their land. (Offsets are placed 10 or 20 feet away from a surveyed point so surveyors can go back in and find it after the point has been destroyed by equipment without resurveying the entire line.) The San Juan Islands are interesting in that about 80% of all the shoreline homes are empty and 30% of thsoe are for sale at any given time. The chances of anyone noticing your landing are, I suspect, very remote in that particulare area. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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