Any means that works is legal I suspect... but your ability to avoid a collision is far better if you are seen, and heard, unless you can go where the on coming vessel cannot. Five blasts? Would not three be a legal method of signaling if need be... if you gave only three... .or one, that is a far cry better than none.... no matter what the law... Being seen and heard empowers the other guy to be more able to do his part also... They are quite audible... whether the other boater takes heed is always the unknown part of the equation.... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 8/2/07, Michael Orchard <mspadorchard_at_comcast.net> wrote: > > Any means that works is legal I suspect... but your ability to avoid a > collision is far better if you are seen, and heard, unless you can go where > the on coming vessel cannot. > The problem with that is that you might choose a method that doesn't work and not know it until it's too late. The Rules of the Road specify an "efficient" method. One of the reasons we are supposed to carry whistles. Five blasts? Would not three be a legal method of signaling if need be... > if you gave only three... .or one, that is a far cry better than none.... no > matter what the law... Being seen and heard empowers the other guy to be > more able to do his part also... > Do not confuse the horn (or whistle) of a vessel with the horn of your car where a couple "beeps" only serve to attract the attention of other drivers. Marine sound signals (like light signals) have specific purposes and giving the wrong one can be worse than giving none at all. The only "legal" sound signal for danger is "five or more". If you choose to only give one or three and there is a collision you may have shifted some of the liability onto yourself. And anyway, how much longer does it take to give another 2 or 3 short blasts on the whistle or horn. Heck, if you're excited enough it might be difficult to stop. Three short blasts means "I am operating in reverse". If you gave that signal and the other person understands sound signals then they will be mightily confused. They would likely conclude that you are stopping to let them continue on. If that is NOT what you want, then those three balsts on your horn (or whistle) were not only not legal but highly counterproductive Look at your car. A flashing red light or a flashing blue light might make your car more visible and avert accidents. The only problem is that those signals are reserved for something else and they would be telling other drivers something that's not true. It's the same thing with sound signals. They are quite audible... whether the other boater takes heed is always the > unknown part of the equation.... > If you sound three blasts on your air horn and the other operator continues on believing that you are backing down to let him continue then he's certainly taken heed of what you've (inadvertently) told him. Again, the point of a soung signal is not just to alert the other operator to your presence but to give him an idea of what you intend to do. He may not understand what the difference is between one, two, or three blasts on the horn (or whistle) mean. But he will certainly understand that if you give more than five something is up. Maybe it's just all my years at sea but when I hear five blasts on a ship's whistle I perk right up. And if there are witnesses on other vessels who hear you give these signals what do you think would happen if they testify that they thought you signalled that you intended to pass "starboard to starboard"? Craig Jungers Royal City, WA PS: One short blast: I intend on leaving you to port; two short blasts: I intend on leaving you to starboard; three short blasts: I am operating in reverse. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Seems to me your being rather stoggy in sticking with the 'rules' here. If I'm stuck upside down in my kayak and manage to blow only three toots with my handy air horn are other boats going to look at me and say: "I'd better be careful, he's backing up"?!?!? Whatever sound you make, whether it's appropriate to the maneuver you're planning to make or not, seems like it's going to serve the purpose of making the other craft look at you to see what you're planning to do. If you're only purpose was to get them to notice you, it seems like it's going to work. After they've pulled you up from your upturned kayak, if they want to yell at you for only using 3 toots instead of the required 5, I'd take my rebuke in silence. -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Craig Jungers Three short blasts means "I am operating in reverse". If you gave that signal and the other person understands sound signals then they will be mightily confused. They would likely conclude that you are stopping to let them continue on. If that is NOT what you want, then those three balsts on your horn (or whistle) were not only not legal but highly counterproductive *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I understand what you're saying... that using sound to get them to notice you is better than nothing. You think... and probably some others too... that we're just kayakers and only out there to enjoy ourselves. We shouldn't have to adhere to rules that were mostly made up for big ships. But I think you're wrong.... at least when you are sharing the waterway with ships, tugs, and other commercial vessels. One of the things we chastise powerboaters and jet skiers for is not knowing what they are doing and for not following the rules. Yet many of us really don't know the rules either. Other vessels... and especially commercial vessels... know the rules and follow them; and expect (more-or-less... they think that mostly we're all morons) us to do it too. If you are surfing then other surfers expect you to know the rules and follow them. If you are sharing a waterway with other traffic then follow the same rules they are expected to follow. It's certainly logical to at least understand those rules. Don't give them signals that will confuse them and hope that it just attracts their attention enough to avoid you. Or you could be upside down in your kayak BECAUSE you only blew 3 blasts on your air horn and he didn't stop because he thought you were backing down and stopping to give him room. I certainly don't advocate carrying an air horn in your kayak, much less using it for crossing or passing signals, but if you DO carry an air horn and use it then you should use it with some knowledge. Otherwise, leave it home. And it might not just be a "rebuke". It might be a lawsuit. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 8/2/07, Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> wrote: > > Seems to me your being rather stoggy in sticking with the 'rules' here. > > If I'm stuck upside down in my kayak and manage to blow only three toots > with my handy air horn are other boats going to look at me and say: "I'd > better be careful, he's backing up"?!?!? > > Whatever sound you make, whether it's appropriate to the maneuver you're > planning to make or not, seems like it's going to serve the purpose of > making the other craft look at you to see what you're planning to do. If > you're only purpose was to get them to notice you, it seems like it's > going > to work. > > After they've pulled you up from your upturned kayak, if they want to yell > at you for only using 3 toots instead of the required 5, I'd take my > rebuke > in silence. > > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Craig Jungers > > > > Three short blasts means "I am operating in reverse". If you gave that > signal and the other person understands sound signals then they will be > mightily confused. They would likely conclude that you are stopping to > let > them continue on. If that is NOT what you want, then those three balsts on > your horn (or whistle) were not only not legal but highly > counterproductive *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's true, we paddle in different environments. We're a bit laid back down here in SoCal where stops signs on the street seem to mean 'slow down if you feel like it'. I think around commercial traffic, you'd better know the code and play by the rules. I nearly got swamped by a giant wake after the rare visit of a large tug in our harbor a couple years ago. He let out a toot when he cleared the harbor and I just took it to mean he was enjoying life and happy to be out and about! I totally ignored him and although he passed by me at a good safe distance, I wasn't familiar with the type of wake left by that type of draft. Now when big boats toot, I listen. Mark -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Craig Jungers But I think you're wrong.... at least when you are sharing the waterway with ships, tugs, and other commercial vessels. One of the things we chastise powerboaters and jet skiers for is not knowing what they are doing and for not following the rules. Yet many of us really don't know the rules either. Other vessels... and especially commercial vessels... know the rules and follow them; and expect (more-or-less... they think that mostly we're all morons) us to do it too. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A general question naturally arises...if air horns are a good way to signal, why don't kayaks come with built-in horns? And running lights? And turn signals? And a rear-view mirror? And a fridge for my beer? Feeling cheated with my plain, old, and unsafe kayak. Quoting Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>: > Seems to me your being rather stoggy in sticking with the 'rules' here. > > If I'm stuck upside down in my kayak and manage to blow only three toots > with my handy air horn are other boats going to look at me and say: "I'd > better be careful, he's backing up"?!?!? > > Whatever sound you make, whether it's appropriate to the maneuver you're > planning to make or not, seems like it's going to serve the purpose of > making the other craft look at you to see what you're planning to do. If > you're only purpose was to get them to notice you, it seems like it's going > to work. > > After they've pulled you up from your upturned kayak, if they want to yell > at you for only using 3 toots instead of the required 5, I'd take my rebuke > in silence. > > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Craig Jungers > > > > Three short blasts means "I am operating in reverse". If you gave that > signal and the other person understands sound signals then they will be > mightily confused. They would likely conclude that you are stopping to let > them continue on. If that is NOT what you want, then those three balsts on > your horn (or whistle) were not only not legal but highly counterproductive *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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