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From: Darryl <Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca>
subject: [Paddlewise] Seeking info...
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:21:14 -0400
Could someone either provide, or point me to a source where I can 
read, a description of the dangers involved in paddling in and around 
river mouth "bars". (I think that is the correct name.)

As a mainly inland water paddler, I have little knowledge of tides 
and currents, and I'd like to make myself more aware before I go 
south this winter to paddle some of the coastal waters of the eastern 
USA.

I have recollections of reading messages from some of you describing 
river entrance bars, but, of course, at the time I wasn't thinking 
I'd ever be in a situation to need that info. I seem to recall 
reading a few articles as well, usually describing harrowing near-
misses, but I'm not sure *where* I might have read them.

I'd appreciate any and all information and/or pointers.

-- 
  Darryl (Hoping to paddle and survive...)
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From: James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seeking info...
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:49:29 -0400
Not quite an answer to the question you asked but I bet you could  
hook up with a club in the area that you want to paddle. Local  
knowledge can lead to great things after the paddle too like where to  
eat and buy gear.

Jim et al


On Sep 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Darryl wrote:

>
> As a mainly inland water paddler, I have little knowledge of tides
> and currents, and I'd like to make myself more aware before I go
> south this winter to paddle some of the coastal waters of the eastern
> USA.
>
>
>   Darryl (Hoping to paddle and survive...)
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seeking info...
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:04:10 -0700
I'll try to do a piece on this tonight or tomorrow for Paddlewise.

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA

On 9/6/07, Darryl <Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Could someone either provide, or point me to a source where I can
> read, a description of the dangers involved in paddling in and around
> river mouth "bars". (I think that is the correct name.)
>
> As a mainly inland water paddler, I have little knowledge of tides
> and currents, and I'd like to make myself more aware before I go
> south this winter to paddle some of the coastal waters of the eastern
> USA.
>
> I have recollections of reading messages from some of you describing
> river entrance bars, but, of course, at the time I wasn't thinking
> I'd ever be in a situation to need that info. I seem to recall
> reading a few articles as well, usually describing harrowing near-
> misses, but I'm not sure *where* I might have read them.
>
> I'd appreciate any and all information and/or pointers.
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seeking info...
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:38:25 -0700
Craig Jungers wrote:
> I'll try to do a piece on this tonight or tomorrow for Paddlewise.

I'm glad to hear that.  I thought to myself:  "Oof!  What a gargantuan 
task.  If only some talented wordsmith would take this on!  Maybe Craig 
will ..."

And, here you are!

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seeking info...
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:58:20 -0700
Darryl:
      A Google search will reveal a number of sources of information
about bar crossings, and boat handling in general. These sources are
intended obviously for motorized craft, but we can still learn from them.
[Thanks to Steve Holtzman for correctly listing one good source.]
Another location which is not technical is

http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/boathandling.html

      I'm not an expert on bar crossings in kayaks. However, there should be
similarities between kayak surfing, and kayak bar crossings. So the surfing
people could have some valuable input.
      I do know enough that bar crossings are inherently dangerous, and in
Oregon there have been numerous accidents while attempting to cross the
bar, involving fishing boats and experienced skippers, with concommitant
loss of property and human life. In short, I think a successful navigation
of a bar involves aspects of both skill and luck. Numerous skillful
skippers have eventually been unlucky.
      I'm sure Dave, Mark, Dewayne, Craig, etc. can offer more practical
advice.

Brad Crain

Quoting Darryl <Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca>:

> Could someone either provide, or point me to a source where I can
> read, a description of the dangers involved in paddling in and around
> river mouth "bars". (I think that is the correct name.)
>
> As a mainly inland water paddler, I have little knowledge of tides
> and currents, and I'd like to make myself more aware before I go
> south this winter to paddle some of the coastal waters of the eastern
> USA.
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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seeking info...
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:05:09 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/2007 12:27:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,  
Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca writes:

Could someone  either provide, or point me to a source where I can 
read, a description of  the dangers involved in paddling in and around 
river mouth "bars". (I  think that is the correct name.)

As a mainly inland water paddler, I  have little knowledge of tides 
and currents, and I'd like to make myself  more aware before I go 
south this winter to paddle some of the coastal  waters of the eastern 
USA.

I have recollections of reading messages  from some of you describing 
river entrance bars, but, of course, at the  time I wasn't thinking 
I'd ever be in a situation to need that info. I  seem to recall 
reading a few articles as well, usually describing  harrowing near-
misses, but I'm not sure *where* I might have read  them.

I'd appreciate any and all information and/or pointers.

--  
Darryl (Hoping to paddle and  survive...)



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
Hi Darryl,
 
I've spent some time in river bars and large inlets draining to sea. Your  
inquiry indicates the level of respect required of these features. I have a few  
links listed below for you to peruse. Unfortunately there was an article 
written  by a kiwi that I wanted to include, which I cannot find. You will want to 
find a  copy of Willard Bascom's Waves and Beaches. It is worth owning and 
referring to  time and again.
 
What you have is a pool and an outlet or multiple outlets. In rivers there  
is also the outflowing current to contend with. Current speed changes with the  
volume of the river. Coastal embayments that drain also produce hazardous  
currents. Bars will change on the level of the tide. Bar conditions can  be 
extraordinarily dangerous on the ebb with even moderate river  flows.
 
If you look at a chart, near the bar the sea floor is shallower than in  
other areas. This is shoaling. Waves will feel ground and produce hazardous seas  
in these areas. The shoaling is produced by sedimentation from the river 
system.  With higher outflow from rain, snow melt, etcetera, bars can increase 
hazards  exponentially, so adopt a bigger view of the primers for potential 
conditions  other than just saying, lets go to (_____) and paddle. Shoaling can go 
far out  to sea and follow the coastal currents significantly.
 
I once planned a trip that involved 3 river bars (without man made  features) 
spread evenly throughout the trip. I picked launch day to coincide  with an 
afternoon high tide. The first river bar was actually the middle outlet  of 5 
navigable outlets. We arrived and waited for 2 and a half hours for the  water 
to rise sufficiently to leave the beach. That time spent on the beach gave  us 
an opportunity to find the paths best used to find our way out.
 
At low water it was whitewater to the horizon, especially to the north. As  
the water level rose, the breakers were far reduced. Still, it was a minimum of 
 20-25 minutes to go from the beach to the outside. One thing we learned on 
that  trip was that the area in between outlets or bars is the same as a bar 
due to  shoaling. We made the mistake of camping in between 2 outlets and it was 
an ugly  fight to get back out the next day. But at least the water was warm. 
The other  mistake we learned from was underestimating the effect on sea 
state even a small  river will have. The shoaling produced by small rivers made a 
big difference in  sea state. Stay sharp on your nav and predict what your sea 
state will look like  given the level of tide.
 
One last piece of advice: tune into the NOAA weather broadcasts. Bar  reports 
are usually broadcasted.
 
The following link is my Webshots page with the mouth of the Sirena river  in 
Costa Rica:
 
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2676124130067748792EtSJAE
 
 
The following is a tale written by 2 very strong paddlers that came to  grief 
on a river bar:
 
 
http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=3177 
Internet  kayaking river bar primer: 
http://books.google.com/books?id=reswnmKlqDQC&pg=PA244&lpg=PA244&dq=crossing+t
he+river+bar&source=web&ots=rap-dd0mlq&sig=w7KM7en7DIwvEVMfaWuboNGFK2Y 
More good advice: 
http://www.waikato.govt.nz/policyandplans/navigation/safety2006/bylaw.34.htm 
http://www.marinesafety.vic.gov.au/doi/doielect.nsf/2a6bd98dee287482ca25691500
1cff0c/a5d4bc8313d2379bca256db40024cde1/$FILE/CrossingBars2003.pdf 
The USCG primer for the  Columbia river bar:  
http://www.uscg.mil/d13/units/gruastoria/bar_hazards.htm 
Cheers, 
Rob  G



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