Re: [Paddlewise] surf boat

Lots of generalizations here to follow. To me, the defining characteristics  
of a good ocean surf boat are loads of bow rocker and volume,  relatively flat 
bottom and rails. Rails begin at the edge of the bottom and form  a lip as 
they transition into the deck. A well designed surf kayak has plentiful  rail to 
help you carve into the water across the wave. I have never come even  close 
to the speeds I can achieve in my surf boat with a whitewater kayak on  ocean 
waves. However, that really only means the designs of whitewater boats  I've 
actually paddled or sized up by eye.
 
Bow rocker and volume helps with taking off from the wave and getting out  
onto the green. International Class boats tend to have less bow rocker as their  
length and speed enables them to take off earlier. True IC boats do not have  
fins that help define High Performance surf kayaks. Those fins also help 
track  across the wave. I can optimize my fin locations given the conditions of 
the  day, though to my skill level it is more guess work than knowing precisely 
what  I'm doing.
 
There is little stern rocker in most surf kayak designs. The stern shape  can 
be quite different though. Mine, a Mega Impulse, has a larger stern intended  
to maximize wave energy. Shallower sterns are said to cut turns more  quickly.
 
I have surfed sea whitewater boats for years and now having a true surf  
boat, couldn't imagine intentionally taking a whitewater boat to the beach to  
surf it. If a whitewater boats had the aggressive rail design of a surf  boat it 
may have problems in the river. Edgier boats can get hung up easily in  rocks, 
slides, and sharp hydraulics. That said, Fluid Kayaks has an interesting  new 
play boat design that is said to surf ocean waves extremely well. One thing  
I would not do with whitewater boat designs and designers is try to put hard 
and  fast rules on them as they are breaking barriers in performance 
frequently. Pro  surfers will tell you they appreciate the lighter weight of the 
composite surf  designs for edge to edge transitions. I tend to agree, even with my 
simple  background.
 
For what it is worth, I don't even blink about adding a new boat to the  
fleet.Creek boats and play boats, surf boats and sea kayaks all have their  place. 
Playful sea boats and gear haulers, folders, traditional skin on  frame and 
slalom boats. Can we ever have enough? The answer is no. We need  the ones 
designed well enough for what we want out of paddling. If it was me,  and I wanted 
to maximize my joy of surfing ocean waves, I'd get a surf boat. Not  only 
that, it keeps the hardware on my river boats from getting all rusty.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G
 
 
In a message dated 9/24/2007 7:01:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,  
crjungers_at_gmail.com writes:

You are  facing the same dilemma I was facing when I posted about a
"sea kayak  playboat" a year or so ago. I really don't think that there
is anything  that will cover both a w/w playboat and an ocean surfer
although probably  the Zip by Necky would come close except when you
have to paddle a ways to  get out or to the surf zone. I think that
it's inescapable that you'll end  up with two kayaks (at least) for
ocean surf and for river play. You should  realize that most w/w
paddlers have more than one boat just for rivers; I  have 3. My wife
sold her sit-on-top w/w kayak but I thought it was a POS  anyway. She
thinks I should sell the rest but I'm having a problem with  that.

So, having no luck at finding a sea-kayak playboat I bought a  Mariner
Express with the idea that its relatively small size (and no  dangling
bits like rudders) it would serve for close coastal and rock  gardens.
So far it's been a real joy but I've never had it in ocean  surf.
Several Paddlewisers have though so maybe they could comment. I  don't
believe an Express would be suitable on rivers though; for one  thing
it's 16-feet long and it's fiberglass and my recollection  of
fiberglass w/w boats is that they end up in pieces after one  season.

The Mariner Coaster, at about 13 feet, has a reputation as a  very good
ocean playboat for surfing and rock gardens. I've put one on  my
wish-list but, again, I don't think it would make a good  river
playboat even in graphite/kevlar form.

Mariner will happily  build either of these for you since they are now
back in the kayak biz. Go  to www.marinerkayaks.com for the link.

In the UK there is a kayak  called the "Rockhopper"
(http://www.teksport.co.uk/rockhopper_kayaks.htm)  that looks as if it
would make a very good playboat for tidal races and  rock gardens. It
has an adjustable skeg to help get you to the playspot and  looks more
like what I would think a sea kayaking playboat would. It's not  cheap
to buy and with the US dollar equal to 2 British pounds it's  even
pricier. Plus you have to get it here; I don't know of a  US
distributor. I talked to a paddler at Deception Pass who has  paddled
the Rockhopper and he was enthusastic. Still, I would rather have  a
"real" w/w boat on a river.

If I were still doing w/w my choice  would be one of the Jackson boats
(maybe the Super Hero since I'm a pretty  big guy) for rivers and for
ocean play I would be looking hard at a Mariner  Coaster. Right now I'm
pretty happy with the Express since it's a 7-hour  drive to the ocean
but only 2.5 hrs to Puget Sound so rock gardens are  pretty tame within
a day-drive.

Rob Gibbert would have good insights  on this, I think, since he still
does both ocean surf and w/w rivers. I'm  sure that Chuck Holst
(forgive me if I've misremembered your name Chuck)  would also have
valuable input.

Good luck,
Craig Jungers
Royal  City, WA







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