Re: [Paddlewise] Another Tiderace Review

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote:

<snipperoo - regarding the Mariner sliding seat>

>
> I have heard that sand can clog up the ease of adjustability. Of course,
> sand makes a mockery of many things boat and camping related. :-)


I can hear grains of sand in the mechanism (if that's the right word for
such a simple device) and I expect that there would be enough sand to gum it
up. But I haven't had a problem with it. The seat and slides form such a
loose fit that it seems sand gets thrown out when you move the seat back and
forth. The web site says that it is "self cleaning" and I have to say that
I've found it to be so. I don't think sand will gum it up but I bet a clay
beach would. Interestingly enough, at least one Mariner paddler has said
that he takes the sliding seat out to use around the campfire ashore and
another, paraplegic, says that he adds wheels to the system so he can move
around on the beach!!!

I'd sure like to see boat makers put some extra glass in the hull where the
> bulkheads go, say a strip or two perhaps between 2 to 6 inches each side
> of
> the bulkhead (that would be a strips totaling 4" to 12" tapered to avoid
> additional stress risers, with the bulkhead centered in the strip. I plan
> to
> do so if I ever do a lay-up. I'd also go custom GRP bulkheads with a
> lipped
> fit to spread the load bearing. Some boats do come so equipped with said
> bulkhead, but only in the stock factory position.


I dropped off my Coaster for repairs at Sterling's Kayaks in Bellingham
yesterday and Sterling and I were talking about that. Several Coaster owners
have modified their boats to include a rear bulkhead and hatch. Sterling
said that he doesn't just butt the bulkheads into the hull but instead wraps
them forward so that there is a large bearing surface contacting the hull
rather than point contact. That seems to me to be a good method for securing
a bulkhead in a boat that will be used in harsh conditions.

As far as loading a boat without bulkheads, I had originally thought it
would be a pain in the butt ... but (!) I discovered that it wasn't really
much of a problem. Since I use drybags in my hatches anyway (just in case) I
often found that larger drybags wouldn't go into the hatches unless they
were mostly empty. So I'd put the drybag in, then load it and fit it and
then add smaller drybags. With the open area fore and aft I just load up
drybags and stuff 'em in. I use a paddle to move them forward (or aft) like
a muzzle loader tamping down his powder. The method is extremely handy for
things like tent poles and spare paddles. I think I could sleep in a Mariner
Escape with the seat removed and replaced by a sleeping pad and a nice clear
cockpit cover.

For Rob Gibbert, Sterling and I also talked about deck designs. He and I
agreed that anything you put on your deck is likely to be lost. I put charts
under the bungees forward, tether my GPS and keep it on deck, tether my
flashlight and keep it on deck, and I put my spare paddle (2-piece) aft
under the deck rigging. I really don't like anything else on the decks. The
deck rigging on Mariners has been given rave reviews by several paddlers but
I took a look at it yesterday with Rob's eyes and I have to say that it does
look cluttered. Part of this is the 1980s design. Sterling thinks that he
could bring the deck into the 21st century and I tend to agree. He wouldn't
touch the hull.

FYI: he had one Coaster in the shop for repairs, mine came in and another
due in today. I guess those little boats get used.

<snippity... regarding how paddlers review the boats and gear they own>


> I've been reading a number of reviews on that site the last few days (I
> should be writing my SK articles instead!). Man, you are correct. Glowing
> reviews everyone. The Nordkapp LV even gets 12 out of 10. Discounting the
> exaggeration factor, should it be a real 10 out of 10? :-)  A 12 out of 10
> means I could sip my Tippy Assam tea without sculling for support in a
> Nordkapp when multitasking!


One of the reviewers (I think of an NDK) said that he gave it a review of 10
out of 10 because of how much he spent on the boat! Well, at least he was
being truthful. Isn't 12 out of 10 like "giving 120 percent"? It seems to me
you could just push that boat out and watch it paddle the rough stuff.


> The buzz words are performance touring, with usually a shorter, bit wider
> boat for serious coastal play and one a bit longer with more displacement
> for play and touring. I'm looking for something between those two. I see
> there's an Explorer LV under $2000.00 on the Body/Boat/Blade website.
> Tempting maybe, at least to try.


Again, maybe my w/w paddling corrupted me. I have no problem with having a
boat for a specific purpose. Sure, they all have some crossover but they
excel at something. The Coaster at playing in rock gardens and surf or
anything that requires agility; the Express for day trips where some speed
is nice; and the Nimbus Telkwa HV for carrying a load. The Express has quite
a few playful characteristics and so, oddly enough, does the huge Telkwa.
The only one of those three that would be a "performance tourer" would be
the Express. But I suspect that there are a lot of good boats out there that
would also qualify.

That's fine. Lots of paddlers like the Inuit heritage of the kayak, and like
> lines to reflect that. I happen to be one of those so inclined.


Oh, I love the lines reflecting the Inuit heritage too. I especially love
the lines of the Greenland boats (for some reason I don't like the baidarka
look... I dunno why). I just don't necessarily associate how a boat looks
with how it performs. I don't automatically assume that a long kayak will
track or that a shorter kayak will turn quickly although generally those
would be accurate assumptions. I would love to take one of those week-long
courses where you build a SOF kayak to fit you and learn how in the process.
I just have to fit it into my schedule.


> Skegs and pebbles! Arggg! Skegs and sand! (There's that sand again!!)
> Kinked
> cables. Dang! Yeah, no skegs are a good thing. You know, when I first
> heard
> about the shorter mariners, I had in my mind a paddler, sitting bolt
> upright, seat trimmer just right, eyes on the horizon, then looking left,
> then looking right to counteract the forces of the sea while leaning left,
> then leaning right respectively, still remaining perpendicular (like a
> smurff plastic paddler), the kayak carving the course the paddlers wanted
> it
> to - all pivoting from this magical, mysterious pivot point near the
> Mariner's skeggy abaft keel line. Guess it isn't that simple.


LOL... nope. Everything takes practice. When I first tried a playboat (most
of my w/w boats are river runners) I expected it to be able to edge back and
forth in a hole with no effort. It just doesn't work that way.


> I realize after reading some of the reviews that this notion of kayak fit
> a
> feel is a highly subjective one. Heck, when one considers what the surf
> ski
> crowd is capable of, it is also so personally preferential for what one
> designates good contact for boat control. However, I still know what I'm
> looking for. And I do like something that is low profile and doesn't
> inhibit
> paddling. The European kayaks seem to take this into consideration. I also
> wonder if the newer keyhole cockpits remove some of the former deck
> profile
> of older designs. But to be fair to you and others, I haven't paddled a
> huge
> variety of kayaks to really have an appreciation of what else is out
> there.
> I've never even tried an Avocet, a Skim kayak, etc.


As far as I know, the champion of testing paddlers (with the documentation
as evidence) is Matt Broze with over 1000 kayak designs tested. I've watched
him during several Pt. Townsend paddling seminars testing kayaks for very
specific traits. I don't even know all the characteristics he tests for but
I do know that he tests for speed, how quickly they turn flat, how quickly
they turn edged, how quickly they turn with and without rudders deployed
and, for all I know, dozens of other points. Matt is an expert kayaker (and
fast!) so his results have a great deal of credibility. If you want to know
the numbers for a kayak design, ask Matt. I'd love to see his results in a
database available to other paddlers as a basic resource.

Besides, everyone knows how much I like raw numbers. <grin>

But, as you said, everything in kayaking is so subjective. We so often
choose what we like based on what looks "right" to us and then subjectively
give it all the characteristics we think it should have. Hence the great
reviews on paddling.net for boats that maybe you and I wouldn't think twice
about. We probably wouldn't think their kids are cute either. <grin>

I also liked your remarks about what constitutes a "compromise" in a kayak
design. One hull design can't be good at everything. If it has a lot of
rocker it won't track like it is "on rails" and if it tracks like it's "on
rails" it can't be nimble and quick to turn. This is why a designer uses
rudders and skegs (and even methods of adjusting the hull's shape itself) in
an effort to make one hull do everything. Can one boat do everything? Sure.
Can it do everything well? Probably not.

What Matt and Cam did some 30 years ago is come up with a hull design that
do more of everything without additional doodads than most kayaks. Speaking
with Sterling yesterday and looking at his hulls made me realize that there
are other designs out there that have expanded on the Mariner hulls. But
because so many paddlers want the Greenland "look" it takes a lot of work to
combine the two philosophies. Matt and Cam didn't try so hard to copy that
Inuit "look" and just let the form follow the function.

And, like you said, there are a lot more boats to paddle.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************