I found a picture of Mark and his painter at http://duane.smugmug.com/gallery/2378334#124618259_xexGH It looks like it runs back from the bow toggle and is clipped to the rearmost bow deck bungee on the left side. Mark, do you set up to that side? It seems to have a certain amount of slack, so it will hang several inches below the deck when capsized, potentially causing problems. If it does, it may be an indication that Mark is setting up with the paddle lower in the water than optimum. With a little more tuck, the paddle would be against the hull, not the deck, and would be clear of the painter. Or you could shorten it so that it clips to the front of the bungees, not the back, since why would you need access to it from the cockpit? HTH Steve -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow, Steve you are good! Visual aids along with your post! You are seeing part of my problem. Although I've been trying to keep the end of my painter a little tighter under the bungies than it shows in that photo, I still would like to keep it loose enough that it would self deploy when I need it. You have also diagnosed a problem with my roll that I'm very aware of. I have so little flexibility that I can't get my paddle very high on my set up, but it's something I just try to work around. My loose painter just adds a bit of suspense to the whole situation. You can see how I use my painter at the end of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWXFCdL-X4 Mark Sanders -----Original Message----- I found a picture of Mark and his painter at http://duane.smugmug.com/gallery/2378334#124618259_xexGH It looks like it runs back from the bow toggle and is clipped to the rearmost bow deck bungee on the left side. Mark, do you set up to that side? It seems to have a certain amount of slack, so it will hang several inches below the deck when capsized, potentially causing problems. If it does, it may be an indication that Mark is setting up with the paddle lower in the water than optimum. With a little more tuck, the paddle would be against the hull, not the deck, and would be clear of the painter. Or you could shorten it so that it clips to the front of the bungees, not the back, since why would you need access to it from the cockpit? Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Damn Mark, It looked like you were having a yard sale there in the water. Since I have the same impediment to a really good tuck that you have, I have found that if you reach for the sky and get your wrists out of the water during your set-up (plus make sure your wrists touch the boat before you start your sweep), that you can get your paddle up higher. It sure helped my roll. Steve Holtzman __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3055 (20080425) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Steve Holtzman wrote: > ... I have found that > if you reach for the sky and get your wrists out of the water > during your > set-up (plus make sure your wrists touch the boat before you start > your > sweep), that you can get your paddle up higher. It sure helped my > roll. > > Steve Holtzman > > This is how I was taught to roll and it really helped. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>You have also diagnosed a problem with my roll that I'm very aware of. I have so little flexibility that I can't get my paddle very high on my set up, but it's something I just try to work around. Switch to a Pawlata extended paddle roll - an extra second or two of set up - and it should solve all of your problems. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>You have also diagnosed a problem with my roll that I'm very aware of. I have so little flexibility that I can't get my paddle very high on my set up, but it's something I just try to work around. A few years ago I was teaching rescues in a kayaking class when someone asked me a question about people who had difficulties getting back into the boat. So I pulled out my loop and explained loop rescues, which was not a usual part of my curriculum for this class. Rather then take the time to replace the loop back into the hatch I store it in, I just quickly tied it to my deck bunjies and proceeded with the class. A little while later someone asked me about Eskimo rolls, so I promptly capsized to demonstrate one. Once underwater I attempted a paddle sweep only to encounter resistance. I realized that my paddle had somehow been tread into the loop which was tied to the deck of my boat! Since failing a roll in front of an audience was simply NOT an option I extended my paddle and managed a modified short sweep Pawlata roll and came up. Hail to the power of the extended paddle :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'd second that Scott. As far as a bow painter, Doug Alderson's Forager I bought from him has a half length bow painter that has a loop up near the front of the boat by the second to last recessed deck fitting. The loop runs free along that section of perimeter line. The length of painter near the paddler in under bungies. When deployed, the line isn't too long, but when you run forward with the line it travels up to the last recessed deck fitting at the bow, thereby giving you access to the bow painter from the cockpit but also a good line out in front of the bow when you need it too, all without being too long. For my Nordkapp, I had a nice long line from bow back to a low profile cleat near the cockpit and then back to the bow. The last part of the back-to-bow section was bungied, with a clip that you could unattached for a double long length bow painter. In the cockpit, I could reach to the cleat which had a hook that a clip running free on the bow painter clipped into the cleat. By quickly releasing the cleat I could jump out of the cockpit, run up a dumping surf beach, not look back, and always know I had my kayak in tow, the length being as long as most bow painters, yet still expandable. In years of hard core use, it never came undone or tangled up, only coming unclipped when I wanted it to. Flawless. Certainly, loose bow painters can be a hazard, especially one rigged up haphazardly. Sorry for your roll problems. Your incident would have been a good one for my entrapment article, the one you said was full of what ifs, not what happends. Yours would have been a good one. :-) Doug L >>>You have also diagnosed a problem with my roll that I'm very aware of. I > have so little flexibility that I can't get my paddle very high on my set > up, but it's something I just try to work around. > > > > A few years ago I was teaching rescues in a kayaking class when someone > asked me a question about people who had difficulties getting back into > the boat. So I pulled out my loop and explained loop rescues, which was > not a usual part of my curriculum for this class. Rather then take the > time to replace the loop back into the hatch I store it in, I just quickly > tied it to my deck bunjies and proceeded with the class. A little while > later someone asked me about Eskimo rolls, so I promptly capsized to > demonstrate one. Once underwater I attempted a paddle sweep only to > encounter resistance. I realized that my paddle had somehow been tread > into the loop which was tied to the deck of my boat! Since failing a roll > in front of an audience was simply NOT an option I extended my paddle and > managed a modified short sweep Pawlata roll and came up. Hail to the power > of the extended paddle :-) > > Scott > So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day Mark and Paddlewise, BOW PAINTER Had a look at my Mirage sea kayak and it has a nicely rigged painter though I've never used it. Its about a 2 metre length of line with a roughly 10 centimetre loop tied in the middle that slips over the bow. Each end of the line is made into a coil that slides along the port and starboard deck lines. From memory the coil seems to be made using something like a "grinner" knot. When you need the painter you just pull the loop off the bow and the grinner knot coils slide along to the end of the deck lines at the bow, where they hold fast. Can't say how well the arrangement works because I've never used it, but can see how it could be a useful tow point or hand pull or loop for holding the boat to a post or bollard. In any case all the lines are tidied well away from interfering with a paddle and the knots, whatever they are, have never become unravelled. ROLL I was interested in Mark's difficulty in reaching for the surface of the water because it reminded me of something I learnt a week ago. After ten months off the water I was only scoring 2 out of 3 rolls. One of the problems was that I spent a lot of time setting up and didn't roll reflexively but thought every step through and what I thought wasn't always what I got! So went to the local roll doctor who didn't ask me to roll once, just asked a lot of questions and got me doing exercises. One of them he was very keen on he'd just learn't from John Kirk Anderson. He then told me that there was nothing magic about the air water interface, to forget patting the surface with my blade that when I was upside down my butt would be in the air anyway so he wanted me to focus on one thing only and that was sweeping out away from the boat. He held the boat while I practised this with out going over and one of the first things I noticed was how the knee and hip automatically engaged when I swept out. Then he let me go and I did a perfect, albeit Pawlatta, roll and came up without any memory of what I'd done except that first push away from the boat. He told me to do this three times and then sent me home to practice. Ever since I've been doing those exercises in the gym and on the water, following his advice and scoring 100%. I was very lucky to have a gifted trainer and I doubt very much that this would have worked on someone learning to roll for the first time. And maybe it would only work for me. Next week I'm going to try the same technique with a sweep roll. I was wondering if the exercises and the focus on sweeping away from the boat rather than the air water interface might help for people who can't bend far over the boat? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter, Concentrating on sweeping away has helped me considerably lately with my roll. I too decided not to worry about where I was setting up and concentrate on a good sweep and it has led to my success lately. Yesterday, I got to paddle Craig Junger's Mariner Coaster and even though it is wider than my QCC, I was able to roll it quite easily. So now I'm looking at my old boat as the culprit in my troubles all this time!!! Mark Sanders -----Original Message----- He then told me that there was nothing magic about the air water interface, to forget patting the surface with my blade that when I was upside down my butt would be in the air anyway so he wanted me to focus on one thing only and that was sweeping out away from the boat. He held the boat while I practised this with out going over and one of the first things I noticed was how the knee and hip automatically engaged when I swept out. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Or, he could just keep it in a hatch. Mine does double duty as a tow line lengthener and sits in the bottom of my Kokatat back sack. It is really easy to get out and clip on to something. When the line gets wet, what happens? Cheers, Rob G I found a picture of Mark and his painter at http://duane.smugmug.com/gallery/2378334#124618259_xexGH It looks like it runs back from the bow toggle and is clipped to the rearmost bow deck bungee on the left side. Mark, do you set up to that side? It seems to have a certain amount of slack, so it will hang several inches below the deck when capsized, potentially causing problems. If it does, it may be an indication that Mark is setting up with the paddle lower in the water than optimum. With a little more tuck, the paddle would be against the hull, not the deck, and would be clear of the painter. Or you could shorten it so that it clips to the front of the bungees, not the back, since why would you need access to it from the cockpit? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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