> We all have our prejudices and preferences when it comes to boats, I guess. > I'm not sure how you get to 40-50 pounds from an original 24 pound (even if > you add your 10 pounds to that it's still only 34 pounds). Even I can carry 34 pounds on my back without risking injury. All packed folders weigh more than they advertise. I've heard of only one exception so far (not a Folbot, and not a Feathercraft eigher). Plus, there are inevitable accessories and gear even for a day trip - paddle, pump, PFD, dry pants/shirt/shoes, snack, water bottle, hat, sunblock, etc etc. If it is advertised as 24 lbs, you will be carrying between 40 and 50 lbs on a daytrip. Carrying 34 or 44 lbs in anatomically correct slim backpack is one thing. Carrying it in a bulky bag like that of Citibot (and Feathercraft backpack isn't any smaller) - something totally different. Taking it to public transit is a different thing again. Buses have steps. People don't give a way. Subway and train stations may have escalators not working. Lightrail etc rail cars may have a divider in the middle of the door. In days of my youth I used to take 45-50 lbs backpack to buses, subways and suburban trains on Friday afternoon. When we are young, any challenge becomes a fun, but I wouldn't perceive it as fun now. I recall, people around me where not too happy as well (it showed). Comments on the "exceeded quota of misinformation" in this regard may command any respect only when coming f rom people with recent experience in stunts of this kind and knowing actual weight of their folders and accessories. The more boats and brands - the merrier for us, customers. When Folbot or somebody else comes up with 10-12 ft * 25" at 25 lbs (REAL 25 lbs) folder that can be assembled/dissembled REPEATEDLY in under 15 minutes and without significant efforts or much thinking, I will be the first to buy it for local daytrips. Though, by that time I will probably figure out the way to store my hardshell closer to my condo, and there will be no need in a folder for local daytrips . The closest model now is Feathercraft K-light, 10 ft * 25" at 33 lbs advertised weight. This is an overnighter fora light paddler. It's real weight is over 40 lbs, and the backpack, albeit a good one, is same bulky as the one in Folbot Citibot. Assembling time is allegedly 20 minutes - can't comment on this, as have never assembled it. And this is another dirty little secret of folders manufacturers - they all understate the assembling time. Another close model is Puffin Sport 10.5 ft * 29" at 17 lbs advertised (don't know real weight - probably around 20-22 lbs), packed size is small, but assembling time is is somewhat unpredctable and is reportedly about 30 minutes (you may inquire at www.foldingkayaks.org forum if you are interested, there are some Puffins over there). Then, there are inflatable kayaks like Inova Helios - slow, wide (though not as wide as the Citibot), the pack is pretty small, advertised weight is same 24 lbs, and must be close to its true weight, as iin inflatable there is nothing to hide or to add. Assembling time? There is no assembling in inflatables, per se. Just pumping. As you can see, there is no ideal daytrip folder. May be this is why some people are collecting folders. Though, I don't quite understand the need in a LOCAL daytrip folder when living in a waterfront property, or in a walking distance to paddle-able waterway where you can use a cart, or in a driving distance to it (say, under 2 hours) - unless your car is a convertible. >From my point of view, inflatable kayak like Helios will do things similar to that new Citibot, being more compact at that. And Puffing Sport will do about the same, being both more compact and lighter than Citibot, but it is less suitable for a spontaneous paddle - longer assembling time (again, I don't know the average assembling time of Citibot). These 2 models and few close analogs so far are the only boats used by "city people" for day paddle without much problems. Where this new Citibot will fit between the existing models? Don't know. Somewhere in the middle, I guess. I don't mind competition at all.The more boats and brands - the merrier for us, customers. My point was mostly that with anything over 20 lbs of ADVERTISED weight and with the bag of Feathercraft or Citibot size you can't just "toss it over your shoulder" and take a public transit joyfully as the manufacrurer's sales pitch implies - or if you can, then you shouldn't expect much of such a boat. PS: I have cut the single shoulder strap from my 2 folders bags (2 different brands, one I have sold, one still own), for the following reasons: 1) It is not wise to toss a bulky 40-50 lbs bag over one shoulder and carry it. Such a weight, especially in a bulky package, should be carried in a backpack, and for extended distances should not be carried at all - some cart should be used. 2) This long single strap tends to catch door handles and similar when you expect this the least. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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