Re: [Paddlewise] guidance H-29

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 9:07 AM, John Gish - Seda Products <
john_at_sedakayak.com> wrote:

> I'll poke my bow into the discussion on H29 for a moment, having seen all
> the ABYC materials come through over the years while they were developed.


One of the great things about Paddlewise is the depth of knowledge displayed
by the participants. :)


> It is voluntary for any manufacturer to participate..... .....but if
> there's a problem .....
> ..... a window for liability has been opened.


I snipped this but I don't believe it's "out of context"... but let's hold
on to the idea of liability for a minute.

>
> For touring sea kayaks, the H29 has an exception as noted, so the layback
> roll
> has not been regulated out.  You may begin to see some standardization on
> load and volume measurements though, as there are strict definitions of
> these metrics.


The wording of the exception is somewhat ambiguous. It looks as though it
applies to sea kayaks but then defines boats that fall under it as "white
water".  Let's keep this thought in mind too.

To be blunt, H29 is all about recreational kayaks.  Consider all the
> quasi-sit in kayaks on the rack at Costco. These typically have no internal
> bulkheads, and the massive cockpits do not allow the paddler to skirt up,
> if
> a skirt was even available.


Matt Broze might take exception to the idea that internal bulkheads might be
a safety requirement... but that was just a passing thought.  :)

These little bathtub boats sold at Costco, Wal-Mart and even my local farm
supply store sure are scary looking. No one would argue with an attempt to
differentiate a well-designed and manufactured kayak over one of those.
After all, in the mind of many (if not most) in the general population if it
looks like a kayak and paddles like a kayak... well it must be a kayak. So,
from a marketing standpoint it's easy to see why a manufacturer like Current
Designs would want to include a reference to H-29.

I'm no designer, but I suspect that there is more to a kayak design than
simply volume and length/width ratios.The problem problem I have with ABYC
setting standards for the safe design of a kayak - even with a poorly
written exception - is that it can so easily become a de facto rule because
of the way the interplay between the insurance industry and manufacturers
works (so aptly described by Dave Kruger). If your company was told that
unless it designed all its kayaks to the "accepted standard" or lose your
liability (there's that word again) coverage then I'd guess you'd find it
difficult not to comply.

As long as we're being blunt, I have to say that I'd trust the ABYA more if
they had used a better definition in their exception. The Current Designs
boat (and I'm looking at the reviews now)  doesn't look like a Costco
special; it looks like a high performance low-volume (20-1/2 inch beam)
skegged kayak. The "manufacturer's response" includes this wording: "This
efficiency translates into rapid acceleration..... and wave catching/riding
ability." It also mentions roll and rescue in the same breath. Call me a
skeptic but I'm thinking that Costco doesn't even try to market its "kayaks"
as superior wave catching boats. Certainly not with a straight face. I can't
see that the H-29 "standard" does anything to differentiate the Suka from
those el cheapo recreational boats. The difference is obvious to almost
everyone. What the H-29 standard does do, apparently, is prevent full
layback rolls in an otherwise high performance low-volume kayak.

So in this instance it appears that the H-29 kayak "standards", voluntary or
not, has caused at least one major kayak manufacturer to create a boat that
has the "unfortunate result" (words directly from the manufacturer's
response) of being difficult to do a full layback roll in. The Suka should
have fallen into that "white water" exception. Except that, for their own
reasons, CD chose not avail themselves of that exception.

Maybe I'm an elitist (runs and hides the Loon 111 under a tarp) but I've got
a bad feeling about this. Kayaks may not be as complex mechanically as power
boats but the subtle connection between paddler, boat and water is certainly
complex. I'm no kayak designer but I suspect that there is more to it than
simple volume versus width/length ratios.

Off topic, Russian speakers must find some humour at "suka" as a boat name.


My wife and I named our cruising sailboat "Kibitka" which seemed
appropriate. Naming a high performance kayak "the bitch" might also be cool;
ignoring some of the other implications of the word. Which, again, makes me
wonder why they didn't avail themselves of the white water exception.

Thanks for your input, John.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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