-- A little steep to get the H-29 report for a non-member ($50). However their website says: "These voluntary technical practices and engineering standards are guides for determining load and powering capacities, and flotation for canoes and kayaks. These voluntary technical practices and engineering standards apply to all boats identified as canoes and kayaks. EXCEPTIONS: Boats with permanent decking and a provision for sealing openings to the bodies of the occupant(s). Boats of this type are sometimes referred to as "white water" craft. Inflatable Boats. " That they're listed as ABYC, Inc. in a few plaes makes me think this is a wannabe standards development -- more in the way of an organization looking for ways to expand rather than actually being one already. That emphasis on 'voluntary' says a lot... There are other organizations jumping into such 'regulatory' things without actually having the expertise or experience to do so. Was it the Small Boat Council (or something like that) that wanted to require anchors in kayaks and canoes? They did convince a few lawmakers and it created a certain amount of agita in paddlers around here... Joe P. (NJ) -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> >What is the ABYC doing "regulating" touring kayaks without input from >kayakers? ABYC does many good things for power boating standatds. but this >is ridiculous. The basis for safe hull design for canoes and kayaks is >very different from that needed for power boats. >This sucks. >-- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It may say 'voluntary,' but when you have a major manufacturer like Current Designs imposing these standards on their designers, it starts to become a little more than just 'voluntary.' On Jun 25, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Joe P. wrote: > "These voluntary technical practices and engineering standards are > guides for determining load and powering capacities, and flotation > for canoes and kayaks. > These voluntary technical practices and engineering standards apply > to all boats identified as canoes and kayaks. Sounds like all sea kayaks would fall into this exception category: > EXCEPTIONS: > Boats with permanent decking and a provision for sealing openings > to the bodies of the occupant(s). Boats of this type are sometimes > referred to as "white water" craft. " Brian *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:36 AM, Brian Curtiss <bc_at_asdi.com> wrote: > > Sounds like all sea kayaks would fall into this exception category: > > EXCEPTIONS: >> Boats with permanent decking and a provision for sealing openings to the >> bodies of the occupant(s). Boats of this type are sometimes referred to as >> "white water" craft. " >> > > I notice this and it makes me wonder about the credibility of a standards authority that doesn't even realize that most - if not all - sea kayaks would fall under what they think are "white water craft"; including the greenland style boat made by Current Designs that sparked this thread. The only reason I can think of for a manufacturer to adhere to these "standards" would be to reduce their liability insurance overhead. Otherwise, the "standards" are meaningless. I can see the values of used kayaks going up over this as people discover that the boats built to the "standards" are more difficult to roll. And yet another reason to design and build your own kayak. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree with Brian. "Voluntary" means the manufacturer is not compelled to do this ... but it is a wasted adjective since the ABYC has no regulatory authority. Here's the rub: when the underwriters who hold the liability insurance for the manufacturer discover that one of their clients is "ignoring" an "accepted" industry standard (even a 'voluntary' one), they have cause to raise rates or dump the manufacturer. Their basis? They will be in a weakened position if litigation ensues against the manufacturer when a paddler dies because the craft was swamped and sinks or becomes unseaworthy. As to the exclusion of WW boats: why not an explicit one also for sea kayaks? We need to heat up ABYC on this. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR -- Brian Curtiss wrote: > It may say 'voluntary,' but when you have a major manufacturer like > Current Designs imposing these standards on their designers, it starts > to become a little more than just 'voluntary.' > > On Jun 25, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Joe P. wrote: >> "These voluntary technical practices and engineering standards are >> guides for determining load and powering capacities, and flotation for >> canoes and kayaks. >> These voluntary technical practices and engineering standards apply to >> all boats identified as canoes and kayaks. > > > Sounds like all sea kayaks would fall into this exception category: > >> EXCEPTIONS: >> Boats with permanent decking and a provision for sealing openings to >> the bodies of the occupant(s). Boats of this type are sometimes >> referred to as "white water" craft. " *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:49 PDT