I have not had much of a problem with this because I do not get that much water over the edge of my spray deck in my particular boat. I have my wind jacket over the outside of the deck tunnel when it gets rough. What about Tuliks? I have one of these that I use with one of my boats and it works well. There are also kayak designs that do not become so unstable when the paddlers compartment becomes full of water. I think that boats that DO become unstable to have a serious flaw (although it is common) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day Robert, Tulik sounds a good option - haven't seen them in Oz but definitely interested. Its an old design of boat based on an Icefloe and not the easiest to paddle but can be exhilarating in choppy water. I like it because its comfortable, unforgiving and keeps me honest! Have to paddle properly and execute turns properly and control edging capably in a following sea. Its also one of the strongest boats I've ever come across, reference an extraordinary video called "Skinning The Chicken" by Larry Gray and you'll see what I mean. When the boat is loaded the cockpit full of water isn't a problem. I'd forgotten what it could be like unloaded in rough conditions with a cockpit half full of water, because normally I have an electric pump whose battery will easily last a few days of regular pumping but not a week or two of expedition. The boat was manageable but a definite pain in the empannage:~) Guess I'm protesting too much as I've got a strange affection for that cantankerous lump of fibreglass! All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day, I'm impressed by the speed and spectacular jet of water coming from a friends 1000 GPH 12Volt Rule pump, compared with the paltry trickle produced by the 500 GPH 12Volt version. Question Would a 500 GPH 12 Volt Rule pump use more, less or the same energy/battery capacity to empty a cockpit than a 1000GPH 12Volt Rule pump. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter, I'm surprised you say the 500GPH only puts out a trickle. I have an Attwood 500 and I can't imagine needing more. I like to sneak up on the unsuspecting, fill my cockpit and give them a thorough dousing. Perhaps the Australian definition of a trickle differs from the proper American English definition!!! Here a pic of my stream! http://www.sandmarks.net/yearend/mygear.jpg Mark -----Original Message----- G'Day, I'm impressed by the speed and spectacular jet of water coming from a friends 1000 GPH 12Volt Rule pump, compared with the paltry trickle produced by the 500 GPH 12Volt version. Question Would a 500 GPH 12 Volt Rule pump use more, less or the same energy/battery capacity to empty a cockpit than a 1000GPH 12Volt Rule pump. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> wrote: > > Here a pic of my stream! > > <http://www.sandmarks.net/yearend/mygear.jpg> Yikes!!! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 3:07 PM, rebyl_kayak > > > Would a 500 GPH 12 Volt Rule pump use more, less or the same energy/battery > capacity to empty a cockpit than a 1000GPH 12Volt Rule pump. > > Assuming it's truly double the pumping capacity of the 500GPH pump, it would not be possible to use less unless the designers of the smaller pump cleverly installed resistors to increase its power draw. It's also unlikely to use the same. I'm betting on more. And probably lots more. Like 2-times more power than the smaller pump. However some of that would be offset by the ability to pump faster and be "on" for a shorter period of time. Even so, your battery had better be ready to deliver at least double the current (amperage) which also means larger wires, switches, etc. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Based on some calculations I did a number of years ago, it takes significantly less energy to empty a boat using the larger pump. I was comparing 500, 800, and 1100 gph Rule pumps, and considered both the "official" specs and my own tests. Based on my results, I fitted my open whitewater canoe with a Rule 1100, using a homemade battery pack with 8 alkaline C cells. I used this setup during a week-long trip down the Middle Fork of the Salmon. Anyone who has run the Middle Fork in an open canoe can tell you that you have lots of opportunities to use the pump. :-) On the first day I put a small crack in my hull when I went over a ledge and my fully-loaded stern came down on a wedge-shaped rock. The boat was leaking water at a slow rate for the rest of the day, requiring frequent use of the pump. Even after fixing the leak, the nearly continuous whitewater gave me lots of opportunities to use the pump. On some of the longer class 3 to 4 rapids, I would simply turn on the pump at the top of the rapid and let it empty the boat as it filled. In spite of the fact that I ran everything (no portages) and avoided all of the "sneak" routes, one set of batteries lasted the entire week-long trip. The pumping rate was noticably slower on the last day, but not enough to render the pump ineffective (or to cause me to change the batteries). With less extreme paddling, I find that one set of batteries lasts an entire season of whitewater paddling. "Rule 1100 bilge pump: real-world tested; paddler approved." Dan On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 08:07:06 +1000 "rebyl_kayak" <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com> wrote: > G'Day, > > I'm impressed by the speed and spectacular jet of water coming from a friends > 1000 GPH 12Volt Rule pump, compared with the paltry trickle produced by the > 500 GPH 12Volt version. > > Question > > Would a 500 GPH 12 Volt Rule pump use more, less or the same energy/battery > capacity to empty a cockpit than a 1000GPH 12Volt Rule pump. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ah, practical matters! I have an electric bilge pump that has worked flawlessly for years; I usually test it before each paddle tour(not yet been used in anger). I have also tinkered with electric powered models for years - boats, cars and planes, powered by anything from '300' style can motors to my precious Aveoxes that then cost me about $1000 each, plus the ESC (electronic speed control). Nowadays the technology is well proven and the prices are very low - or about a tenth of what it was then. A small motor has generally an OK no-load resistance (thus fairly efficient at low loads), but at times when it is very highly loaded the brushes might even melt, and its efficency goes down the river, each time you load it over the recommended amps. A bigger has lower no-load resistance, but when loaded like the small one it is much less affected, thus more efficient! Bit like a car with a small engine, compared with a car with a big one all other things being similar (size, weight, et cetera) - The smaller will have better milage at low speed, but at high speed in might very well be the other way round, as the small egine is overstressed and overloaded! The laws of physics might say that a greater spout needs more energy but one should be aware of the fact that small electric motors, especially brushed ones, are far less efficient than bigger - a typical '400' can motor is in the 40% efficiency range under load (typical load 100W), while a non-brushed, slighter bigger, say 250W motor, is in the 80% range, some even in the lower 90's! Thus a small motor wastes more than half the power into the air/water as heat! So, if possible, replacing the motor the unit got with a brushless might be a good idea :-)! A bigger pump is also much more efficient, than a smaller (a matter of Re, foil choices available and surface quality) so the amount of fluid pumped per Ah is very probably much better with a bigger pump. Bigger through-put means you need to use it for a shorter time, thus, as long as the battery can deliver the Amps, bigger is better! My own bilge pump is a big, standard, salt-water-proof boat pump), dirt cheap and very powerful - it seems to use a brushed motor, but I can live with with less than 80% efficency (motors that size use to be in the 80% range, give or take a few percent - a brushless of that size at least 10% better). Tord PS Photos of my istallation can be found at www.foldingkayaks.com -- Be Yourself _at_ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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