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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:39:17 -0700
In his own words: http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=15650


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:04:36 -0700
Craig Jungers wrote:
> In his own words: http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=15650

I think this story defines hubris.  Thanks to Craig and Matt for pointing 
it out.  It is a wonderful object lesson, and told in the victim's own 
words and inflections, it is an indescribably effective "teachable moment."

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:53:45 -0700
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote:

>
> I think this story defines hubris.  Thanks to Craig and Matt for pointing
> it out.  It is a wonderful object lesson, and told in the victim's own words
> and inflections, it is an indescribably effective "teachable moment."
>
>
Matt gets all the credit for pointing it out.

I thought it was very interesting that there is no mention of a spray skirt.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:41:59 -0700
   Dr. Redfern went for an hour run before launching his kayak. This could
fatigue your body and cloud your judgement. He is also retired or  
semi-retired, and so his age might have contributed. He paddled alone  
in dubious weather wearing a ski bib (and apparently no spray skirt).  
Fortunately he capsized near the ferry terminal. Quite the story.  
Curiously, the adventure racers who died on Howe Sound had run up a  
hill before paddling, and wore light clothing.

Brad

Quoting Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>:

> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think this story defines hubris.  Thanks to Craig and Matt for pointing
>> it out.  It is a wonderful object lesson, and told in the victim's own words
>> and inflections, it is an indescribably effective "teachable moment."
>>
>>
> Matt gets all the credit for pointing it out.
>
> I thought it was very interesting that there is no mention of a spray skirt.
>
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:16:22 -0700
Some other thoughts on this. He went upwind in heavy seas to do his
paddle-float rescue. I've never tried one of these in high winds/seas but I
can see some negatives about going upwind not downwind and only two
positives.

First the positives:

1. Going upwind means your kayak will not drift onto you.

2. Breaking seas don't break in your face.

Negatives:

1. If you're upwind your body will move with the current while your kayak
(mostly empty) will be pushed by the wind. Better hold on tight.

2. Upwind means that the paddle float is extended into the area of steepest
water (wave face). This would increase the capsize moment requiring you to
keep more of your body weight upwind.

3. If the upwind paddle float gets too high it could be caught by the wind
to greatly increase capsize moment requiring even more weight on upwind side
of the kayak.

4. Wind force on your body tends to also increase capsize moment (away from
the stabilizing influence of the paddle float).

The way I see it going upwind to start your paddle float rescue makes it
much more likely that it will fail in a capsize downwind versus a paddle
float extended downwind. The good Doctor tried three times and failed. Each
time he successfully managed to get back aboard his kayak but was face down
with his feet in the cockpit facing aft. He capsized each time as he tried
to maneuver himself back into the cockpit. This appears to me to be a
foregone conclusion if you extend the paddle float upwind rather than
downwind.

I know there are lots more people here more experienced in paddle float
technique than I am. Any comments? Am I thinking through this wrong?


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:38:15 -0700
To me, the most telling aspect of his plight was his quote "I had never
self-rescued alone".
That seems to show a lapse in judgment that I can't see improving under life
threatening conditions.

Mark

-----Original Message-----

 other thoughts on this. He went upwind in heavy seas to do his
paddle-float rescue. I've never tried one of these in high winds/seas but I
can see some negatives about going upwind not downwind and only two
positives.

First the positives:

1. Going upwind means your kayak will not drift onto you.

2. Breaking seas don't break in your face.

Negatives:

1. If you're upwind your body will move with the current while your kayak
(mostly empty) will be pushed by the wind. Better hold on tight.

2. Upwind means that the paddle float is extended into the area of steepest
water (wave face). This would increase the capsize moment requiring you to
keep more of your body weight upwind.

3. If the upwind paddle float gets too high it could be caught by the wind
to greatly increase capsize moment requiring even more weight on upwind side
of the kayak.

4. Wind force on your body tends to also increase capsize moment (away from
the stabilizing influence of the paddle float).

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ferry Crew Rescues Seattle Kayaker - Update
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:46:49 -0700
I taught paddlefloat rescues for our local club for a short while a few 
years ago. I got a perverse pleasure watching paddlers who carried these 
devices proudly lashed to their decks, deriguer-must haves -- then actually 
try to re-enter, pump, re-attach their sprays-skirts, and move on to a 
position of safety. Few could. And this, on flat, warm lake water.

I have used paddlefloats, solo, in rough water (30 knots plus, tide races, 
breaking seas). Much of what transpires in real life may come down to things 
like the volume of water in your boat, deck design and height, cockpit size, 
paddlefloat rigging, dexterity, encumbering apparel/flexibility, volume and 
type of float, ability to time waves, obviously practice, and coldness of 
the water and your protection - even state of mind. I never found the 
down-wind/upwind side of the equation to be a significant factor, with the 
ability and wherewithal of the paddler to keep grasp of the boat and rig a 
workable float set-up more important.

The article I wrote for SeaKayaker on Paddlefloat Rescues (Issue 72 I think) 
got into some of the mechanics of the rescue.

There are a lot of workable alternatives to the paddlefloat rescue but one 
needs to remember that the more options one has, the better their chances of 
something working in extremis (Joc's favorite word). I still think the 
paddle float rescue, well rehearsed and used in moderate conditions with 
good deck-rigging/float-to-paddle leashing, etc, is a useful rescue 
strategy. I don't think the conditions exhibited in the ferry crew rescue 
incident reflect the intended conditions for normative, effective 
paddlefloat rescue. This guy clearly should not have been out alone in these 
conditions, for starters. He was not sea kaying. He was not paddling. He 
was, paginating one more name into the book of fools, flipping over another 
new page in a book that expands far too readily in the Pacific Northwest.

BTW, I played with Matt's paddlefloat technique using a collapsible water 
jug as a paddlefloat (counter-balance) back in the early 80's in some fairly 
snotty stuff. Worked very well indeed. There are modern versions out now of 
a counterbalanced paddlefloat. Of course, I was re-entering a narrow 
Nordkapp full of water with an Ocean Cockpit. Counter-balanced floats were 
the way to go. The problem was getting everything ship shape after the 
re-enter (pumping-out, skirt back on, retrieving rigging/paddle off the rear 
deck, etc.) That took and takes skill, grace, prayer, luck, and expert 
timing in difficult sea states. In the end, it's just a whole heck of a lot 
easier to stay seated in your kayak. :-)

These days, I'd go back to my seat-of-the-pants (or 
not-so-stay-in-your-seat) kayaking experiences of decades past, over raising 
teenage daughters, any day!

Doug Lloyd - living in the cascadia/hormone/subduction zone


> Some other thoughts on this. He went upwind in heavy seas to do his
> paddle-float rescue. I've never tried one of these in high winds/seas but 
> I
> can see some negatives about going upwind not downwind and only two
> positives.
>
> First the positives:
>
> 1. Going upwind means your kayak will not drift onto you.
>
> 2. Breaking seas don't break in your face.
>
> Negatives:
>
> 1. If you're upwind your body will move with the current while your kayak
> (mostly empty) will be pushed by the wind. Better hold on tight.
>
> 2. Upwind means that the paddle float is extended into the area of 
> steepest
> water (wave face). This would increase the capsize moment requiring you to
> keep more of your body weight upwind.
>
> 3. If the upwind paddle float gets too high it could be caught by the wind
> to greatly increase capsize moment requiring even more weight on upwind 
> side
> of the kayak.
>
> 4. Wind force on your body tends to also increase capsize moment (away 
> from
> the stabilizing influence of the paddle float).
>
> The way I see it going upwind to start your paddle float rescue makes it
> much more likely that it will fail in a capsize downwind versus a paddle
> float extended downwind. The good Doctor tried three times and failed. 
> Each
> time he successfully managed to get back aboard his kayak but was face 
> down
> with his feet in the cockpit facing aft. He capsized each time as he tried
> to maneuver himself back into the cockpit. This appears to me to be a
> foregone conclusion if you extend the paddle float upwind rather than
> downwind.
>
> I know there are lots more people here more experienced in paddle float
> technique than I am. Any comments? Am I thinking through this wrong?
>
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
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