Paddlewisers, Did someone ask about avoiding traffic in the shipping lanes? Today's close encounter: http://duane.smugmug.com/gallery/7974972_WSa9N#518101537_f6U4a We were hoping to cross it's bow, but as it got closer, we could tell it was going to be close, so we decided to let it pass in front of us. Then it slowly began to turn towards us. A GPS indicated we were in the separation zone of the shipping lanes. I still think it was easier than crossing a busy street. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>wrote: > Paddlewisers, > > Did someone ask about avoiding traffic in the shipping lanes? > > Today's close encounter: > Great photos, Duane. I don't have any charts of that area handy but I can think of a couple of things. Notice that the angle of view from the bridge over the bow (across the containers) means that the officer on watch and his AB can't see anything closer than about a mile directly in front of the ship.And beyond a mile a kayak is pretty difficult to see. They *should* have another watch on the bow but whether they do or not is probably anyone's guess. I worked on tankers and our visibility was much better (no containers). In that particular channel there is a traffic separation zone but if a ship is headed to one of the LA ports (Long Beach, San Pedro) they can exit the traffic lanes; although I would have expected them to make that exit farther east than your position. They are not supposed to move out of their lane until they get to an intersection which would then either lead them to the Pilot station and then into the LA breakwater or lead them SE'ly and out of the Channel. Maybe they were headed to Ventura... is there a container port there now? About the time they started to make that turn to port I would have been on the VHF. LOL. Another note: they are not required to carry a pilot in those waters until they pick up the harbor pilot seaward of the breakwater entrance so even though English is a universal language for mariners and aviation their ability to understand what a kayak is during a radio conversation might be limited and there would probably not be a native English speaker on the bridge. In SF Bay, and the Columbia River and most of Puget Sound there would be a US Pilot on the bridge. Also, they are not required to monitor Channel 16 as long as they are in contact with Vessel Traffic Control. But they are supposed to listen to channel 13 (bridge to bridge). Finally it's worth noting that the great circle route between Panama and Asia goes through Reno, Nevada. So you can expect large vessels to be within sight of the coastline up and down California and Oregon. If you're driving down US 395 you're probably safe from them, however. :) Pretty impressive bow wave, huh? What was it like when it finally reached you guys? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, We were up the coast around 50 miles from the port in LA, where it probably came out of on it's way up the coast. I knew the ship was getting ready to make a turn, because it was heading inside of an oil rig that I knew the ships go outside of. Like I always say, avoiding ships is no problem. We gave this one plenty of clearance. We could see it slowly turning closer and decided to just sit and enjoy the view. The guy on the ship who gave us the friendly wave came out on the part of the bridge that allows him to see the side of the ship. The whole thing was the highlight of the crossings. The wake behind the ship was like a steep 6 foot swell. Duane --- On Tue, 4/21/09, Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: > From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Shipping Lane Traffic > To: strosaker_at_yahoo.com > Cc: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 10:52 PM > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Duane Strosaker > <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>wrote: > > > Paddlewisers, > > > > Did someone ask about avoiding traffic in the shipping > lanes? > > > > Today's close encounter: > > > > Great photos, Duane. > > I don't have any charts of that area handy but I can > think of a couple of > things. Notice that the angle of view from the bridge over > the bow (across > the containers) means that the officer on watch and his AB > can't see > anything closer than about a mile directly in front of the > ship.And beyond a > mile a kayak is pretty difficult to see. They *should* have > another watch on > the bow but whether they do or not is probably anyone's > guess. I worked on > tankers and our visibility was much better (no containers). > > In that particular channel there is a traffic separation > zone but if a ship > is headed to one of the LA ports (Long Beach, San Pedro) > they can exit the > traffic lanes; although I would have expected them to make > that exit farther > east than your position. They are not supposed to move out > of their lane > until they get to an intersection which would then either > lead them to the > Pilot station and then into the LA breakwater or lead them > SE'ly and out of > the Channel. Maybe they were headed to Ventura... is there > a container port > there now? About the time they started to make that turn to > port I would > have been on the VHF. LOL. > > Another note: they are not required to carry a pilot in > those waters until > they pick up the harbor pilot seaward of the breakwater > entrance so even > though English is a universal language for mariners and > aviation their > ability to understand what a kayak is during a radio > conversation might be > limited and there would probably not be a native English > speaker on the > bridge. In SF Bay, and the Columbia River and most of Puget > Sound there > would be a US Pilot on the bridge. Also, they are not > required to monitor > Channel 16 as long as they are in contact with Vessel > Traffic Control. But > they are supposed to listen to channel 13 (bridge to > bridge). > > Finally it's worth noting that the great circle route > between Panama and > Asia goes through Reno, Nevada. So you can expect large > vessels to be within > sight of the coastline up and down California and Oregon. > If you're driving > down US 395 you're probably safe from them, however. :) > > Pretty impressive bow wave, huh? What was it like when it > finally reached > you guys? > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, On a side note, I always assume cargo ships can't see me and respond accordingly. Duane --- On Tue, 4/21/09, Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: > Notice that the angle of view from the bridge over > the bow (across > the containers) means that the officer on watch and his AB > can't see > anything closer than about a mile directly in front of the > ship.And beyond a > mile a kayak is pretty difficult to see. They *should* have > another watch on > the bow but whether they do or not is probably anyone's > guess. I worked on > tankers and our visibility was much better (no containers). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane, Awesome pictures. Looks like you guys had a perfect day for your crossing. Was the weather as calm on the way home? The ship pictures reminds me of my last crossing to Anacapa. There was a considerable amount of haze and just before we entered the shipping lane, we saw a ship heading towards us in the haze. It was probably only about 3 nm away so we decided to wait as it would probably take only 10-12 minutes to reach us at 15-18 knots and we would not be out of the lane in that amount of time. After waiting 15 minutes and finding the position of the ship hadn't changed much, we finally realized that we were waiting for Oil Platform Gail to reach us. Since it's anchored to the sea floor, I think we'd still be waiting if we hadn't decided to go for it. Just as we exited the separation zone to cross the outbound lane, we had a container ship pass about 200 meters in front of us. Our pictures however, don't compare to yours. Steve Holtzman __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4028 (20090422) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shipping lanes.... Was once crossing a shipping lane in Casco Bay in moderate fog. Had prudently used marine radio to notify any inbound or outbound traffic of our presence, "Securite, securite, securite...." First half of the crossing was fine. We paused at the mid-channel marker and again checked, this time getting a response from a smaller craft alerting us to a merchant ship inbound that should be right about on top of us..... We heard the "hissssss" of the wake and then, yikes, looming above us was this behemoth who apparently didn't hear or deem our radio calls worth a response. We were fine. Good thing we stopped. Last time I'll cross a channel in fog... Another time when with a group we had crossed a channel and were rafted up to enjoy a snack, some water, some chatter. We were floating above a somewhat shallow ledge that dropped off somewhat quickly to the depths of a commercial shipping lane. An outbound merchant shipped passed on the far side of the channel, and we watched but didn't give it much thought. About a minute later, its wake approached...and when it hit the sudden shallow of our ledge, it quadrupled in height.... A few of us yelled , "incoming!" and got our bows pointed into the approaching, now breaking wake/wave. But some didn't quite make the turn and got hid abeam...and one was literally thrown in the air, sideways, at another member of the group who was pointing bow into the wave....it could have been really, really messy. But, thankfully no one was injured....just ruffled. Good lesson on situational awareness. -Will *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
William Jennings wrote: > Shipping lanes.... > > Was once crossing a shipping lane in Casco Bay in moderate fog. > Had prudently used marine radio to notify any inbound or outbound > traffic of our presence, > "Securite, securite, securite...." > > First half of the crossing was fine. We paused at the mid-channel marker > and again checked, > this time getting a response from a smaller craft alerting us to a > merchant ship inbound that > should be right about on top of us..... > > We heard the "hissssss" of the wake and then, yikes, looming above us > was this behemoth > who apparently didn't hear or deem our radio calls worth a response. > > We were fine. Good thing we stopped. > > Last time I'll cross a channel in fog... > <snip> > > -Will There's a chain is islands in the St. Lawrence. The rules state that we are to announce ourselves when crossing between islands, or between islands and mainland in fog or reduced visibility. But who is responsible for monitoring and taking avoiding action? In Will's example, it seems that (some) boats either do not monitor, or do not take avoiding action. (Or they do monitor but don't bother responding!) I'm all in favour of doing everything I can to avoid other boats, but what else can one do in fog except make the announcement? -- Darryl *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
William, In Southern California the cargo ships have always been good about giving one long blast of the horn every two minutes in the fog when I've been out there. I also listen really carefully, because I can hear the humming of the ships too. Also, your story is why I don't bother to use my radio to contact the ships. I believe it's totally up to us to avoid them. They really can't stop or turn very well to avoid us anyway. Duane http://www.duane.smugmug.com/gallery/7974972_WSa9N#518101537_f6U4a *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jerry, Cargo ships aren't that wide, and they don't turn very fast. Even if one is coming straight at you from a few hundred yards away, a kayak should be able to get out of the way. I'd much rather be in that situation with a cargo ship than a meandering pleasure boat. I think the biggest factor in handling the shipping lanes is psychological. The size of the cargo ships is intimidating. Over the years, some people in my groups have freaked out a bit the first time, but once they see how easy it is to avoid the ships, they are more relaxed. It sounds like you and your wife did a fine job avoiding the ship at Rosario Strait. Duane --- On Wed, 4/22/09, Jerry F <gfoodma_at_earthlink.net> wrote: > I had asked about avoidance based on a bad experience > crossing Rosario Strait in the San Juans with my wife in a > double. When we were committed we saw a huge barge coming > down the channel and could not tell whether it would pass in > front or behind. VERY scary. In the event it was a good > half mile away when it passed. > > I just do not see how you can judge from the kayak where > these huge ships will cross, nor when. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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