Re: [Paddlewise] Advice on boats

Jerry,

Nice summation and good integration of points and counter points. You must 
think about this stuff more than I do. Maybe get yourself a Nordkapp, paddle 
one a few years until the point where every righting movement for every 
righting moment is so automatic that you don't have to think about the 
physicality of the paddling anymore. Sure, you will still have the sploosh 
issue (or fear of) to contend with, but personally, the recovering from 
inverted position or a full-on scull to perpendicular if fully automatic now 
too with me, and part of the fun. :-)

Okay, seriously, not sure how to respond here. As you can see, I have not 
purchased an NLV yet, perhaps happy that the LV corrects some of the Classic 
and Jubilee issues, but retains some of the unwanted sploosh effect still. A 
guy I know on Westcoastpaddler got an LV a while back, loved it, sold his 
Greenlander but has already ordered a Tiderace and is paddling a Whiskey 16. 
Of course, very few of these local paddlers go on long, extended trips on 
open water.

I do know that the poly Nordkapp falls somewhere between the other Nordkapp 
extremes and has a more favorable secondary stability - and is plastic so 
good and strong (and Valley's plastic is awesome for such a long boat). I do 
like the NDK Explorer too, but that secondary stability kicks in too fast 
for my liking. If the Valley line is coming to Australia, the Poly Nordkapp 
will probably be a good seller.

In the end Jerry, it is all a matter of degree with this stuff; and personal 
preference; and body type (fat-bummed vs tall versus female-form, whatever; 
different boats for different asses). Even Robert's excellent post 
arbitrarily sets the width parameter.

Your original notion that a performance sea kayak with slightly more 
stability (primary and secondary in equal measure perhaps) should be more 
desirable that one without this improvement if that design retains similar 
performance roles is one I cannot disagree with. Who can? Craig has brought 
this issue up in earnest here before.

Those dedicated to the  rounder hull profile of a Nordkapp who appreciate 
some of the subtleties imparted while crossing chop, etc., will continue to 
either ask themselves if it is all worth it, put up with it, move to a more 
sploosh-free design, or do what I do when the surface is so unruly and 
retreat on purpose to the most stable, inverted position and take a break 
upside-down. I assume that isn't a strategy you employ with whatever design 
it is you paddle :-)

Wilder yes, and wilder by degree most definitely, though I ask you again why 
most of the Nordkapp guys are still out there in the rough with big grins on 
their faces.

Doug Lloyd.

> Doug,
> I was not familiar with the Wilcox review.  Thanks.
>
> Let me slice out a few points that struck me:
>
> Doug wrote:
>> Some of my post was purposefully subjective. As you have correctly 
>> implied, defending the "twitchiness" of the Nordkapp often comes down to 
>> a certain subjectivity.
>
> Jerry says:
> No doubt.  But the Nordkapp LV is such a beautiful boat, with so many 
> accolades as a wonderful rough water boat, that I would love to love it 
> myself.  Unfortunately I have not been able to.  And it is because of the 
> sploosh effect, or fear thereof.
>
> Wilcox wrote:
>> However, as you edge an Alaw the boat becomes progressively stiffer and 
>> more secure feeling, as you edge the Nordkapp LV it just keeps going over 
>> smoothly until sploosh. There is no warning when you are just about at 
>> the limit of secondary stability. Intermediates learning edging and bow 
>> rudder strokes found the Alaws to be much easier."
>
> Jerry asks:
> All other things being equal, how does this lack of warning provide any 
> benefit to even an advanced paddler?
>
> Wilcox writes:
>> "was expecting it to be manoeuvrable, given all that keel rocker, but I 
>> was not expecting it to be fast. However, it accelerates to top speed 
>> with fewer strokes than any other boat I have paddled. And what a burst 
>> speed it has! The Nordkapp LV managed 11.6km/hr."
>
> Jerry says:
> A friend with a Nordkapp LV has done some comparative speed trials against 
> some other boats (on flat water) and disputes any speed claim for the NLV.
>
> Doug wrote:
>>The Alaw's, Xcites and Romanys/Explorers are so incredible rock solid on 
>>edge or when forced over in following seas unexpectedly there's just much 
>>less chance for "sploosh" and more indication that you can keep an edge 
>>for device-less directional control.
>
> Jerry says:
> After saying this, Doug, it is hard for me to contemplate an NLV vs one of 
> these others.  This incredible rock solidness has no associated negatives.
>
> Doug wrote:
>> So yes, why paddle a Nordkapp. Well, for the Nordkapp aficionado, the LV 
>> rectifies a lot of the previous problems with the Classic, the H2O, and 
>> Jubilee models.
>
> Jerry asks:
> I would ask why the Nordkapp afficionado prefers it to the rock solid 
> boats you mentioned, not former Nordkapp models?  If I could answer for 
> you, or other afficionados, I would say that you just like it.  Period. 
> That your skills are such that the sploosh effect is simply not an issue.
>
> Doug wrote:
>> The speed issue is one important to me. Getting back in fast or clearing 
>> a headland quickly are all important attributes for me. I tried a Seda 
>> Glider out once. Fast. Awesome. But, in a lumpy sea and wind, forget it!
>
> Jerry says:
> Having owned one, I agree about the Glider in lumpy seas, especially wind. 
> As for speed, I think more about getting an extra quarter knot at normal 
> paddle speed than top or racing speed.  I find that I get this in my new 
> QCC 700X, but am not yet sure about lumpy seas.
>
>>
>> Doug Wilcox concludes:
>> in extreme conditions even experts appreciate secondary stability."
>>
>> He seems to agree with you Jerry in his last sentence above.
>
> Jerry says:
> Non-experts appreciate stability even more.  But not too much stability. 
> My whole point is not, stable vs unstable.  Rather it is the advantage of 
> a small bit of reserve buoyancy or feedback from chines in otherwise 
> similar hulls.
>
> Doug wrote:
>> When I sit in an NDK or Tiderace, I'm immediately aware of certain 
>> advantages. As seas get rougher - all the more. Do I enjoy the 
>> experience. No. Not the same. A kayak is more than the sum of its parts. 
>> Kayak and kayaker are one. When a kayaker is in a sea kayak they really 
>> enjoy, the experience truly is greater than the sum of the parts.
>
> Jerry says:
> So you choose the romance of the NLV over 'certain advantages'.  Well, who 
> can explain true love?
>
>> I have not found that perfect experience yet. Everyone wants an exciting, 
>> sexy, wild, good looking souse. Rarely is a frumpy, reliable, faithful 
>> and true spouse not the best option in the long term. I'm looking for 
>> both (in a kayak, that is). I'll let you know when I find it. :-)
>
> I look forward to the revelation.  Meanwhile I am sticking with my wife.
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