RE: [Paddlewise] How long would you wait - (was Kayaks and Visibility)

G'Day Doug,

You're right 80% of what I listed I would carry all the time, if it was a
distraction sorry, in fact its loosely based on a club list and my own
preferences. Have to say my post was a bit too rushed.

Thanks for the feedback. I was a bit concerned that you might be generalising
from me to the very few paddlers in NSW who would do this sort of thing well
in a group context. Remember I described myself as incompetent to carry out
this kind of paddle or to give advice. I certainly didn't mean to imply
Australians did this sort of thing all the time. I know a great many paddlers
in NSW and can think of three who would lead such a trip well.

What are they doing losing a paddler out there in those conditions? To some
extent because I forced the scenario so that a paddler would be lost and very
difficult to find. I was trying to understand how a leader faced with this
sort of situation would think, particularly on how long to wait before making
a call for help. I've been told by a very senior instructor three minutes
tops, which startled me at first but the more I think about it the more it
seems to make sense. I don't know of an instance when a lost kayaker out of
their boat on the water has been found by another kayaker. Does it happen? I
was also trying to understand better what kind of lighting people would use at
night based on the previous thread and in that regard I think the very
consistent preference for a cyalume sounded like a good option though I'd like
to test whether it would stay attached to headgear and working after a roll.

Why would anyone do such a trip? It wouldn't be much fun being so regimented.
I'd do it as training for long crossings where I might expect to set off
before dawn or arrive after nightfall. The preparation in which there was a
lot of pretraining reflected that kind of motivation and perhaps I should have
said so. Also I'd want to become familiar with a route and what works on that
route before leading other people or trying anything radical. As for
regimentation I agree the people who run these trips well don't do it like
that at all. For this scenario its the only way I knew how, which is why I'm
appreciating the broader view.

Am I using the name "Coast Guard" appropriately in an American context? Our
Volunteer Coastguard and Volunteer Coastal Patrol (VCP) are both set up to
carry out rescues and very much prefer to be in the loop. In fact the VCP
seems to like the idea of participating in exercises with us so long as we
make the appropriate donation. In this regard I was particularly taken by
Craig's approach of using a boat backup, I've done this on three occasion's,
One was a tinny many years ago, when a friend suggested and organised the
boat, one was a VCP boat for a kayak race in Sydney harbour a couple of years
ago, and the last was a VCP boat when we were practising some offshore rescues
a few months ago.

Gungho paddlers? I guess there are some who are and others who take a
different approach, and some who are gungho depending on the circumstances.
Hope its nothing to do with nationality. Same the world over I imagine. Don't
think theres anything special about Australia or anywhere else.


PAM, DOUG and GARBAGE BAGS
Doug, Pam asked about garbage bags and using them in a way that I think was
similar to your sea seat. I hadn't intended to use them in that way although
the sea seat sounds like a useful device, and you said years ago it was no
longer available. I'd like to ask if you would answer Pam's question for me?
Do you think an industrial garbage bag woud be a substitute? Would it be a
hazard used that way?

Pam I use the garbage bags as a substitute for reflective blankets in
electrical storms when I've had to get off the water, that is to say hardly
ever, though I've been caught out a couple of times. There was a controversy
about this a few years ago and I bit my tongue and provided my explanations
back channel. The explanation was subsequently confirmed by our national
physics lab but I never did continue the discussion on Paddlewise. But in
terms of keeping warm the foil blanket would be much better as it tends not to
radiate so much heat from the body.


PAUL, BOB and CRAIG
Still thinking about your responses because the issue of searching effectively
is something I'd like to know more about. I'll ask questions a bit later. You
and Craig commented about the shifting weather. I really was trying to make it
a static scenario so that the focus was on someone lost. Should have explained
that the wind shifting was an attempt to account for a land breeze so you woud
know how strong the land breeze was without having to include it in your
thinking. This was too specific to a hot climate and I should have just said
expect a land breeze to affect the wind direction slightly.or else not
mentioned it at all.

Thanks again for all the ideas and feedback - even the tough feedback~)

All the best, PeterO
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