a variation on the paddle theme we have. When it comes to paddle feathering, from the time I had my first intro class, I have been handed feathered paddles. Supposedly easier into a head wind, but someone noted a feathered paddle can catch the wind when the wind is on the beam where an unfeathered will not. I had a gust catch me unexpectedly once that felt like the paddle was about to be ripped away from my loose grip. As I've developed my skills, I've used Brent Reitz Forward Stroke video. If you have seen the video, he has an "Aha!" moment when he was struggling with tendinitis, which was caused by his bending his wrist backwards. My last paddle I was working on forward stroke technique when I had that same discovery, my right wrist bends back for the catch on the left. I tried a couple of things but either the right blade or left didn't catch squarely w/o my wrist bending. The only way I could not bend my wrist was to take the feathering out of the paddle. I intend to do a few hours worth of paddling, and bracing practice to see how it feels. Does anyone have any thoughts, am I loosing some benefit, or gaining some other? It has always struck me as odd that the GP's are not feathered and the storm paddle was a better solution to strong winds than feathering. I think I see a GP in my future. Mike San Rafael, CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike Euritt wrote: > a variation on the paddle theme we have. > When it comes to paddle feathering, from the time I had my first intro > class, I have been handed feathered paddles. Supposedly easier into a head > wind, but someone noted a feathered paddle can catch the wind when the wind > is on the beam where an unfeathered will not. I had a gust catch > me unexpectedly once that felt like the paddle was about to be ripped away > from my loose grip. > > As I've developed my skills, I've used Brent Reitz Forward Stroke video. If > you have seen the video, he has an "Aha!" moment when he was struggling > with tendinitis, which was caused by his bending his wrist backwards. > > My last paddle I was working on forward stroke technique when I had that > same discovery, my right wrist bends back for the catch on the left. I tried > a couple of things but either the right blade or left didn't catch squarely > w/o my wrist bending. The only way I could not bend my wrist was to take the > feathering out of the paddle. I intend to do a few hours worth of paddling, > and bracing practice to see how it feels. > > Does anyone have any thoughts, am I loosing some benefit, or gaining some > other? It has always struck me as odd that the GP's are not feathered and > the storm paddle was a better solution to strong winds than feathering. I > think I see a GP in my future. > > Mike > San Rafael, CA I have always paddled unfeathered. It just seems so much easier on the wrists -- possibly the result of my doing the 'feathered' thing all wrong when I tried it. I have also moved to a bent shaft paddle -- something I find also to be easier on the wrists -- and the hand positions on the paddle encourage (I think) an unfeathered approach. I tried a Greenland paddle once. There's a certain amount of truth in the "Old dog, new tricks" saying. I found that it drove me nuts trying to manage the "slide the hands" trick as I went from a stroke on one side to the other. Maybe a longer paddle where I didn't need to constantly move my hands would have been better. For me, the unfeathered paddle has at least two advantages. The first being that it's very difficult to put the paddle together in the wrong feathered angle (leading to a "whoopsie" moment when the blade slices through the water instead of catching and pushing water). The second that it is easier my *my* wrists. I suspect that it might also be easier for people learning to roll, since the two ends of the paddle are aligned and there is no mental gymnastics involved in orienting the far end of the paddle to skim along the surface. However, since I cannot roll, and since my learning attempts have been few and far between, this last point is only a supposition. -- Darryl *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Mike Euritt wrote: >> a variation on the paddle theme we have. >> When it comes to paddle feathering, from the time I had my first intro >> class, I have been handed feathered paddles. Supposedly easier into a head >> wind, but someone noted a feathered paddle can catch the wind when the wind >> is on the beam where an unfeathered will not. I had a gust catch >> me unexpectedly once that felt like the paddle was about to be ripped away >> from my loose grip. > In response, Darryl Johnson wrote: > I have always paddled unfeathered. It just seems so much easier on > the wrists -- possibly the result of my doing the 'feathered' thing > all wrong when I tried it. > > I have also moved to a bent shaft paddle -- something I find also to > be easier on the wrists -- and the hand positions on the paddle > encourage (I think) an unfeathered approach. > > I tried a Greenland paddle once. There's a certain amount of truth > in the "Old dog, new tricks" saying. I found that it drove me nuts > trying to manage the "slide the hands" trick as I went from a stroke > on one side to the other. Maybe a longer paddle where I didn't need > to constantly move my hands would have been better. > > For me, the unfeathered paddle has at least two advantages. The > first being that it's very difficult to put the paddle together in > the wrong feathered angle (leading to a "whoopsie" moment when the > blade slices through the water instead of catching and pushing > water). The second that it is easier my *my* wrists. In response, Brad Crain writes: I have always paddled unfeathered. My paddle is a German racing paddle that I use to go slow. The German's make good stuff, like the Shamwow. Never had any pain in wrists or shoulders over a 20 year period. My biggest problem has been that I can't read a chart worth %$_at_#. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu> To: Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca Cc: Paddlewise Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Mon, Jul 20, 2009 8:53 am Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Feathered or not? MyB biggest problem has been that I can't read a chart worth %$_at_#.B Brad, Nigel Calder wrote a great book called How to Read a Nautical Chart. It also includes Chart One. Well worth the 20 bucks you would pay at a marine store. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Darryl Johnson <Darryl.Johnson_at_sympatico.ca > wrote: > > I tried a Greenland paddle once. There's a certain amount of truth in the > "Old dog, new tricks" saying. I found that it drove me nuts trying to manage > the "slide the hands" trick as I went from a stroke on one side to the > other. Maybe a longer paddle where I didn't need to constantly move my hands > would have been better. Darryl... the "sliding hands" maneuver on a GP is for a storm paddle which is a very short paddle. It's very short to reduce windage in a storm. The short length requires the paddler to move his (or her) hands to be able to extend it out from the side of the kayak to reach the water on each side. A "normal" GP doesn't require you to move your hands at all. In fact, you can index your hands on the shoulder between the loom and the paddle face and just paddle that way all day long. You should try a GP again only this time use one that is full size. And I totally reject the "old dog,new tricks" saying. I'm less than 4 years away from 70 and still addicted to learning. There is always something new to learn. > For me, the unfeathered paddle has at least two advantages. The first being > that it's very difficult to put the paddle together in the wrong feathered > angle (leading to a "whoopsie" moment when the blade slices through the > water instead of catching and pushing water). The second that it is easier > my *my* wrists. If it's easier on you then it's easier and 'nuff said. I solved the feathered/unfeathered issue by simply having a two-piece paddle so I can select. The only "whoopsie" moment I've had is when a gust of wind caught my upwind feathered paddle and tried to capsize me... I just changed it to unfeathered. (Of course, I've just purchased a one-piece feathered Lightning paddle... but I can always shift to a spare.) > I suspect that it might also be easier for people learning to roll, since > the two ends of the paddle are aligned and there is no mental gymnastics > involved in orienting the far end of the paddle to skim along the surface. > However, since I cannot roll, and since my learning attempts have been few > and far between, this last point is only a supposition. > Most of the time you would have to align the paddle face since an accidental capsize generally means that you lose the grip on the paddle for an instant... or you "could" lose it and so the alignment step is mostly automatic. However, w/w paddlers who capsize a lot (most of them capsize a lot) just roll up with little pause between the capsize and the roll up. Most of the roll is in the hips (or knees) not the paddle, anyway. Learning to roll is a lot more fun in 85F water than it is in places like Puget Sound (55F water). And if you wear a face mask you can get a much clearer idea of what you're doing. Age does play a part in rolling I've found... with flexibility issues. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All of the strokes and braces are the most powerful when you are pulling one arm back as though your forearm is a rope tied to the paddle by your fingers and your pushing hand pushes directly in line with your forearm and wrist. The paddle shaft, your wrist and your elbow should all be in a straight line with your elbow leading (when pulling) or pushing directly behind your hand much like making a straight punch. Any bend or angle at the wrist (more commonly seen with the pushing arm) will weaken a strokes power and effectiveness. Think of it as giving your strokes and braces an added punch. Worse, bending your wrist either back or side to side can lead to repetitive stress injuries. To minimize the stress on your wrists do not bend the wrist back to "control" a feathered paddle (as is almost universally taught) and also hold the paddle with as loose a grip as you can. With any feather angle your wrists should also not bend side to side to follow the changing shaft angle throughout the stroke. In other words, the shaft should pivot in your hand and not bend your wrist as it pivots. This is important whether you paddle feathered or unfeathered. With any feather angle control the blade with the hand nearest the water and relax the upper hand so the paddle can freely rotate in the hand that is pushing. This way you dont bend your wrist when paddling feathered and you do not have to lift your elbow out like a boxers hook if you paddle unfeathered (to take out the 45 degree rotation you put on the blade by lifting the upper hand from your elbow). With any feather it is more efficient to push with your elbow starting at your side and the key to doing this is LOW HAND control. Tip: if you hold the paddle loosely between strokes the rotating moment you put on it while lifting can be used to spin it a little further into position without needing to bend your wrist at all. A good paddle will also make this adjustment to the angle if necessary as the blade enters the water. If you have to physically immobilize your wrists with braces or tape until you learn to paddle without bending them, do it. They will thank you for it later. The above was cut and pasted from our Paddling manual (about 1/3 of the way into it). The tip in italics is for feathered paddlers. Mike, my advice is to stick with feathered and learn to paddle without bending your wrists. It took a few hours for me to convert to that after having bent my wrist (as I was taught) for years in whitewater paddling. As soon as I took up long days in a sea kayak my left wrist (I paddle left feather) started killing me. I needed to do something quick or abort a two week trip. With so many years of WW bracing honed into me unfeathered was not a good option. I developed the hold the paddle lightly and dont' push or pull with bent wrist style insead and it became second nature in a day. I never had wrist problems from paddling again and I once paddled over 70 miles in a 23 hour period. Sticking with feathered, you won't confuse your bracing reactions. Going into strong headwinds will be much easier. The side wind argument is bogus. Once you know that your paddle can be lifted by extreme wind you are careful not to expose the blade to the wind and use a lower stroke in those condition. If your paddle is caught by the wind simply twist it to spill the wind. If the wind catch is strong enough it risks capsizing you, simply let go of the upper hand and let the upper blade blow over into the water while hanging on to it with the downwind hand. Next quickly bring the paddle back accross your boat straight into the wind. Your paddle will now be upside down (if it is asymetrical) but you can still paddle and brace with it just fine and can strighten it back out when you get the break to do so. The time you might forget that you need to keep your paddle low for the strong side wind is if something happens and you suddenly need to do a brace. During a high brace the feathered paddle's upper blade now slices through the wind but the unfeathered paddle's upper blade is suddenly flat to the wind and too high to avoid being caught by it. Oops! Tha argument (not mentioned here yet), that you get the upwind loss back when you paddle downwind with an unfeathered paddle also has no merit. Since the upper paddle blade is moving forward at about 2.5 times as fast as the kayak is moving (depending some on the paddle's length). A kayak doing 4 knots into a ten knot wind has a 20 knot relative wind on the paddle blade, Doubling the wind speed and creating four times the drag. Turn around and paddle downwind and you get the wind and the paddle going the same speed in the same direction for zero net gain. Feather your paddle and don't bend your wrist by using low hand control (rather than right or left hand control). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:32 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>wrote: > Feather your paddle and don't bend your wrist by using low > hand control (rather than right or left hand control). > I hope you're going to Pt. Townsend. You are going to have to sit me down and explain this. :) Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:32 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE >> Feather your paddle and don't bend your wrist by using low >> hand control (rather than right or left hand control). > I hope you're going to Pt. Townsend. You are going to have to sit me down > and explain this. :) Pretty simple, actually: clasp the upper shaft only with your encircled thumb and forefinger; the other hand automatically becomes the control hand. Been doing this for years to avoid tendinitis ... and I paddle UNfeathered! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike wrote: >When it comes to paddle feathering, from the time I had my first intro >class, I have been handed feathered paddles. Supposedly easier into a head >wind, but someone noted a feathered paddle can catch the wind when the wind >is on the beam where an unfeathered will not. Brad wrote: > I tried a Greenland paddle once. There's a certain amount of truth > in the "Old dog, new tricks" G'day Brad and Mike, Re old dogs and new tricks there may be a converse aspect to the adage. I'm getting on a bit and suspect that my muscle memory isn't as great as it once was. After not practising a roll or other manoevre for a few months it becomes necessary to relearn the technique using logic until the muscles are retrained. Its always much easier to relearn than to learn from scratch though. This can be a real advantage sometimes in that not only do I unlearn good habits but bad ones as well. Some years ago I took advantage of this 'relearning' process, after a 1 year break from paddling, to take some forward stroke instruction using a euro paddle with a smart shaft and asked the instructor to not only correct my stroke but in the process to determine a paddle length and feather that would maximise the stroke efficiency and minimise or reduce to zero any wrist rotation. It was a classically vertical racing stroke, which I use in moderate seas because it saves me energy. For me the best length for the paddle was 212 cm. I had expected that the best feather angle would turn out to be zero but for me it was about 30 degreees. We discussed this at length and came to the conclusion that the innate asymmetry and handedness in a body and in body movement required some degree of feather if wrist rotation was to be minimised and this of course would vary from person to person. Another point that came from my instructors experience was that while an ideal paddling physique with no stiff joints or other idiosyncrasies might favour the classical racing stroke for speed or minimum energy paddling; there were nevertheless many people who through custom or age and stiff joints, or a propensity for upper body rather than abdominal strength, would be better off with a quite different paddling style. Of course none of this touches on the back problems that can come with an inappropriate paddle stroke. I'm not sure what causes such problems, touch wood I don't suffer from them; but suspect a combination of poor technique when lifting boats and a torso rotation that focuses only on the upper body with out involving the whole torso down to the buttocks. Years ago I asked the question on Paddlewise what contribution the legs made when moving them as part of a paddle stroke, Newtons law of action and reaction made it difficult for me to undestand how leg movement helped. I'm now convinced that the sole contribution of leg movement is to allow upper and lower torso to rotate in better unison. A year or two later we had an excellent club seminar in which a New Zealander (and I think he's on Paddlewise but I've forgotten his name - apologies) caused a great deal of interest with a paddle stroke instruction that included not only adjusting paddle length and feather but also changing the blades. It was an eye opener to the whole club. I'd be interested to hear if others have had similar or contrary experiences. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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