I think I found the new sponson guy. "The first requirement is safety: It is hard for many traditional kayakers to agree that sit-in kayaks are very unsafe by the fact they require the passenger to be attached (i.e. practically trapped) inside. Some of them say that the 'Eskimo roll' is a perfectly safe and dependable method of recovery" http://www.wavewalk.com/KAYAK SURFING.html Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> looks like it could be fun, but why not just call it what it is, a > catamaran with a paddle? I wonder how it will fare in a rogue wave? > corrected link http://www.wavewalk.com/SURFING.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Oh man, am I really supposed to feel safer in that than my sea kayak?? The site says surfing a sea kayak must be unsafe, because people who do always wear helmets, and I'm thinkin' "why doesn't that guy have one on?" Standing INSIDE a cockpit in a wave, sure no chance of hitting your head in that scenario. I guess if you stay inside the one foot shore break, at least your unconscious body probably won't float too far away! And I like the way they cut the video just as he jumps out on the wrong side of his kayak. Guess they didn't want to show the one foot wave taking him out!!! -----Original Message----- corrected link http://www.wavewalk.com/SURFING.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Why is it no surprise that the videos of it surfing do not include any actual surfing on waves of any significance. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of James Farrelly I think I found the new sponson guy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
(I managed to send this only to Jim.... but I have a new note regarding the "s***sons".) On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:22 AM, James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>wrote: > I think I found the new sponson guy. > > "The first requirement is safety: It is hard for many traditional > kayakers to agree that sit-in kayaks are very unsafe by the fact they > require the passenger to be attached (i.e. practically trapped) > inside. Some of them say that the 'Eskimo roll' is a perfectly safe > and dependable method of recovery" > > http://www.wavewalk.com/KAYAK SURFING.html > > Well at least he hasn't accused us of killing children. However he does have that similar tendency to twist facts in order to suit his product. He also claims that "surf kayaks" are limited to surfing only small waves because their smaller size prohibits them from punching through larger surf. There are several more "discussions" on that site that are questionable if not outright false and all of them bend the facts to suit his products. Matt and the other designers should have a field day. I'm guessing that the writer has little actual experience in a sit-inside kayak or around kayakers. This reminds me of the on-line canoe magazine committee of writers who bluntly state that any kayak with a beam of less than about 30 inches is too unstable to paddle safely. At least they weren't trying to push their own product. But Jim's remarks about the "s***sons" may be more right than I thought (or the videos indicate). In fine print on the page for ordering is this little gem: "Our kayaks also come with one pair of plastic foam, detachable side flotation<http://wavewalk.com/blog/2008/03/20/kayak-side-flotation-why-use-it-and-how-does-it-work/>modules, standard. Our enhanced (e) models feature two pairs of these modules, standard. " Yikes! Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What, no side-surfing either in the pics? Hmmmm Doug Lloyd > Why is it no surprise that the videos of it surfing do not include any > actual surfing on waves of any significance. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of James Farrelly > > I think I found the new sponson guy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think the website says it best, if you just follow the statement to its logical conclusion: "The Polynesians, who invented the surfboard, also used twinhull boats (catamarans) for sailing and paddling." So,it seems, those genius Polynesians did not use catamarans for surfing. Hype is hype. I can imagine the Polynesians saying "Those dugouts the other islanders are paddling are useless . . . " Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
They also gave us the term "huli," as in "the surf ended in a huli." There are some terrific outrigger surfing videos on teh intrawebs, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVFSEsD2OHo , but given the water temperature here on Superior, my crew would mutiny rather than surf in our OC-6 -- riding swells is as far as we will go. -----Original Message----- I think the website says it best, if you just follow the statement to its logical conclusion: "The Polynesians, who invented the surfboard, also used twinhull boats (catamarans) for sailing and paddling." So,it seems, those genius Polynesians did not use catamarans for surfing. Hype is hype. I can imagine the Polynesians saying "Those dugouts the other islanders are paddling are useless . . . " Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well, he's not like Tim, really. He doesn't have that chip on his shoulder. However, he is also Not a surfer Not a paddler Maybe a fisherman. And he's a huckster. He's hyping what he can to sell his product but doesn't know enough to realize how far off he is. It's just not a kayak. And while he does sell s**ns*ns they are only pool noodles with a bungee cord through them. Where he has them placed, they don't even come into play until you've already fallen out of the boat. I think this is one of those things you can ignore and they will go away... Joe P. -----Original Message----- >From: James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> >Sent: Sep 2, 2009 2:22 PM >To: paddlewise Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> >Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak Surfing > >I think I found the new sponson guy. >http://www.wavewalk.com/KAYAKSURFING.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sep 3, 2009, at 07:30 AM, Joe P. wrote: > Not a surfer > Not a paddler > Maybe a fisherman. > > And he's a huckster. He's hyping what he can to sell his product > but doesn't know enough to realize how far off he is. > It's just not a kayak. This is all a little harsh. How can we as a group of kayakers "reserve" the words paddler and surfer and kayaker for that matter. He is out there paddling and he is out there in the surf. As for hucksterism, I just call that marketing. In this case it is a little crude and obvious but he is just a guy running a little business out of his basement. I have heard BS from much bigger kayak companies that is more subtle but equally exaggerated. Every kayak out there is super fast... Like the Garrison Keiler town where everyone is above average. I live in Seattle but went back east and made an effort to meet this guy and paddle his boat. He was very cordial. This is a very low budget operation. And his boat is very different with the good and often bad that comes from wandering off the mean. But I enjoy people who are doing things out the the ordinary rather than another sea kayak that is indistinguishable from dozens of others except for the claim made for it. At least his boat is actually different. He is a dreamer and an "original". He originally designed two hulls that you strap to your feet and walk on the water. Not very practical. He evolved into his current design from that unlikely start. I guess I am a lumper not a splitter. I am happy to call him a paddler and a surfer. _________________ As for his boat, it is less stable than one might think. Fun and easy to get in and out off the shore. Symmetric like many ferries so you do not have to turn around if you go from one shore to a nearby one. I would not want to paddle great distances in it. And it is made of that plastic stuff that I dislike but which a majority of people paddle now. Wobbly and squishy. I think he sells mostly to fisherman. You are sitting in a position that is overall more comfortable than sitting in a classic kayak -- for older folk. I was over in the kayak forum kayak building thing that Guillemot kayaks runs. There is a guy there who just made a catamaran kayak with all the problems that that creates. But it is interesting. I would like to paddle it. I do not think that it makes much sense. But you have to have people who are willing to do the far out. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
- -----Original Message----- >From: James Farrelly JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net >I think I found the new sponson guy. No he is not the next Sp*ns*n man. Yoav (Wave Walker) has a way of sometimes mis-interpreting and presenting things in a favorable light to his product and I don't think he has had much experience with kayaks at all but he is no sp*ns*n man. I just read his present article on speed and there is not much left there to critisize. He has taken past criticisms and incorporated them into his article and done a lot more research than when I was first corresponding with him several years ago. He even looks to have a new model in the works where he seems to be incorporating what he has learned. That's not something you could expect from sp*ns*n man. He may deemphasis the negatives such as more wetted surfave friction on a multi-hull but at least he now acknowledges the fact. His use of speed data for Monohull Vs. Multihull sailboats still bothers me. While it is true for sailboats it just doesn't apply to kayaks so is very misleading. He should quit trying to ride that comparison. He also seems to think that all kayaks need rudders or constant attention to make them go straight. That probably just shows that he has only used squirrelly kayak hulls (like a WW kayak or a poor rec kayak) himself and is leaping to wrong conclusions from that limited experience. I see at the end of his speed article he has acknowledged (below) my [sometimes harsh] contributions. I suspect I'm not the only one who took him to task for what he had been saying earlier. "Acknowledgment: This article in its present form would have been impossible to write without the direct and indirect inputs from many professional and amateur kayak, canoe and other boat designers who contributed their [sometimes harsh] critique and plenty of useful information." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yeah, good kayak for fishing. Whatever the real design concept was and whatever the boat really excels at, which I'm sure it does have some good attributes and uses ( like fishing) are the things he should concentrate his advertising around. Just an observation. Doug Lloyd. > On Sep 3, 2009, at 07:30 AM, Joe P. wrote: > >> Not a surfer >> Not a paddler >> Maybe a fisherman. >> >> And he's a huckster. He's hyping what he can to sell his product but >> doesn't know enough to realize how far off he is. >> It's just not a kayak. > > This is all a little harsh. How can we as a group of kayakers "reserve" > the words paddler and surfer and kayaker for that matter. > > He is out there paddling and he is out there in the surf. > > As for hucksterism, I just call that marketing. In this case it is a > little crude and obvious but he is just a guy running a little business > out of his basement. I have heard BS from much bigger kayak companies > that is more subtle but equally exaggerated. Every kayak out there is > super fast... Like the Garrison Keiler town where everyone is above > average. > > I live in Seattle but went back east and made an effort to meet this guy > and paddle his boat. He was very cordial. This is a very low budget > operation. And his boat is very different with the good and often bad > that comes from wandering off the mean. But I enjoy people who are doing > things out the the ordinary rather than another sea kayak that is > indistinguishable from dozens of others except for the claim made for it. > At least his boat is actually different. > > He is a dreamer and an "original". He originally designed two hulls that > you strap to your feet and walk on the water. Not very practical. He > evolved into his current design from that unlikely start. > > I guess I am a lumper not a splitter. I am happy to call him a paddler > and a surfer. > > _________________ > > As for his boat, it is less stable than one might think. Fun and easy to > get in and out off the shore. Symmetric like many ferries so you do not > have to turn around if you go from one shore to a nearby one. I would not > want to paddle great distances in it. > > And it is made of that plastic stuff that I dislike but which a majority > of people paddle now. Wobbly and squishy. > > I think he sells mostly to fisherman. You are sitting in a position that > is overall more comfortable than sitting in a classic kayak -- for older > folk. > > I was over in the kayak forum kayak building thing that Guillemot kayaks > runs. There is a guy there who just made a catamaran kayak with all the > problems that that creates. But it is interesting. I would like to paddle > it. I do not think that it makes much sense. But you have to have people > who are willing to do the far out. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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