BRC wrote: >This might not only supply our power needs, but also virtually eliminate >obesity and various health problems, like stroke and heart attack. >I'm really sorry I thought of this. G'Day, I once tried to keep a light bulb alight at the science museum in the UK by pedalling an exercise bike. Hard work!! 200 Watts per very fit person over several hours comes to mind. And I tend to eat a fair bit more when I exercise. However, the fuel to run a person (food) is amongst the least efficient and most resource intensive around - so health and fitness are a better argument for gyms, kayak and bikes than fuel and resource economy. But I guess if you're going to ride an exercise bike it might as well turn a generator! Darryl wrote >they will not pay for his excess power because an insufficient >percentage of the hardware is of Canadian origins. So he gives the >excess power away -- and they don't seem to be complaining about >getting it. Darryl, thats a really frustrating situation. He's not just being forced to give away the energy, but giving away renewable energy. Many countries in the world pay high premiums for consumers that feed "GreenPower" back into the grid. Re the wind turbine. They are extremely cost effective in a windy rural setting but not in city environments, even the vertical axis turbines have a long way to go unless they are large and installed on tall buildings. However, as Craig says solar PV (and more importantly thermal) is very well suited for cities and buildings and getting cheaper every few months. Craig wrote >I suspect we all have GPS units now. Most of us carry some form >of communications when we paddle: VHF or cell phone (or both), most likely. Craig, I'm refurbishing all my gear at present as most of its fallen apart after 12 years and I'm seriously looking at installing solar on my kayak for maintaining battery charge on all the gear I intend to buy in the next few months for some of my longer trips. It seems as if GPS has become simple enough that my less than perfect eyesight can use it on a kayak. And NiMH rechargeable batteries are now sufficiently long lived that its worth using them in some of my equipment. Selecting equipment that uses AA cells seems to be a logical first step, although I do have a concern that some VHF and GPS models won't work properly with the reduced volatge of NiMH rechargeable AA batteries. Has anyone fitted out their kayaks with solar cells and used them to recharge a variety of equipment? I'm just starting to design a system.and considering whether to use a foldup solar charger or panels built in to the deck of the kayak. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey PeterO - On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:53:57 +1000, "rebyl_kayak" <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com> said: > I'm seriously looking at installing solar on my kayak > for maintaining battery charge on all the gear I intend to buy in the > next few months for some of my longer trips. It seems as if GPS has > become simple enough that my less than perfect eyesight can use it on > a kayak. And NiMH rechargeable batteries are now sufficiently long > lived that its worth using them in some of my equipment. Selecting > equipment that uses AA cells seems to be a logical first step, > although I do have a concern that some VHF and GPS models won't work > properly with the reduced volatge of NiMH rechargeable AA batteries. > Has anyone fitted out their kayaks with solar cells and used them to > recharge a variety of equipment? I'm just starting to design a > system.and considering whether to use a foldup solar charger or panels > built in to the deck of the kayak. A few years ago I tried the NiMH AA rechargeables for GPS/lights enroute kayak trips. At the time, the batteries would last only about 1/3 the time of a normal alkaline AA, which meant changing them out at lunch stop for they would not last the day in the GPS (Garmin Map76). The other frustrating thing was the rapid self-discharge rate, meaning a fully charged battery was NOT fully charged a day later. I used a Brunton Solarport folding panel that offers several power outlet configs. One is a 'std' 12-volt outlet - cigarette lighter style. Using this I could directly charge my VHF (Standard Horizon) and cell phone with their native 12V chargers - worked fine. Using the batt-jack to charge the AA's worked too, just that the battery performance was not good. I understand this has improved however, when I'm out on the water I want the GPS to WORK!! Also, the SolarPort is not waterproof so the options were trying to secure it in a map bag on deck and/or using it as soon as you land at the camp site. And it lacks enough power for more than one device at a time. I'd recommend using devices that are native 12V where available. Since then I have installed a "bear-proof" (also waterproof) 30W panel from PowerUp at my very remote camp site. This panel is a seriously laminated thing less than 1/4" thick. It could easily conform to and be secured to a relatively flat deck and provide enough power for all the gear and cool your beers too :). You could roll on over it or thrash it a bit without worring about it, too. Of course, you'd have to waterproof the cable into the kayak and the connections to the gear. I think I'd look at one of these for future trips requiring a power source. Maybe a smaller size & forego the fridge :). At camp I have lights, fridge, charging, and a small wifi network off my cellular broadband (all native 12V)! Might be over the top for a kayak trip. Jennifer -- Jennifer Pivovar jpivovar_at_headwinds.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jennifer & Peter make good points about power use on longer kayak trips. Eight years ago, I standardised on AAs (camera, LED head-torch & backup VHF) then later added GPS to that. These all work acceptably well with rechargeable (NiMH) AAs. On modern Eneloop 2000 AAs (newer low-self-discharge NiMH) my Garmin Legend HCx lasts 15 hours (screen lighting off - it just logs my track and gives an rare answer to WTF am I). It seemed like I might be exaggerating that, so I just checked the logs for the past weekend. It did two days of 7.5 hours and the 2 AAs have power left. The VHF I liked in 2001 (HX-460S) uses a custom Lithium battery. This was a trade-off I accepted because it was much lighter & more compact than the AA-powered alternatives; as well as having better battery life, less charge decay and better (IMO) water-resistance. I also paid $15 for the 2xAA battery case for the VHF - as a last-resort backup. I still like it and would make the same choices. I don't remember a cellphone ever using AAs. All mine have had a custom battery - first NiCad, then NiMH, now Lithium - but they all last quite a while if turned off ;) To cope with multiday trips, I carry a (big & heavy) 12V gel-cell (7200 mAh) to recharge the other devices via their 12v power cords. This has worked very well. Every week, I find somewhere (eg: ranger's house or cafe) to recharge the gel-cell overnight. (I also carry its power-brick charger along.) Battery & charger are a weight penalty no worse than a big bottle of water. This practice has worked well over the years and many trips. The VHF gets topped up every night and the others are recharged when necessary. So, now in 2009, my camera (XG-9) also works off custom Lithium cells - but much more efficiently than my first digital camera (which ate AAs). The XG-9's batteries are cheap & light enough that I bought 3 of them - which will usually last for 10 days. The charger is also light & tiny and runs from the gel-cell if I need to recharge. I should replace the big gel-cell with a smaller & lighter-weight 13.6 v Lithium RC (radio-control) power pack. These are popular with the night-time runners and mountain-bikers (for use with very powerful headlamps). At around $150, they are amazing tech - but care is needed with recharging - they can explode! (Nothing too daunting - we've all safely survived igniting little pots of gas & petrol for years ;-) The addition of a decent deck-mounted solar-cell would add a whole new dimension of independence. I would love to try this as soon as it's ready for that ultimately challenging environment - the deck of a kayak. Every now & again, I have looked at the progress being made with the panels and - as others have commented - been pleased at the improvement. Some early problems : - waterproofness & fragility - serious & rapid panel degradation - cells still 'worked', but output fell badly. - output seriously reduced if something like a rope (sailing sheet) lay across any part of the panel I'd love to hear stories of people using the new flexible panels on kayak decks and getting useful power out of them. I've considered bringing panels along for use in camp - but camp is usually dark or stormy. I still don't like the idea of plugging in devices (to solar) on deck. I imagine I'd prefer to keep a 'master battery' - maybe a smaller RC pack - under constant charge (maybe in my dry day-hatch) and then take its 12-14 V output to charge one of the other devices. Say a spare camera battery by day and the VHF at night. I know this is grossly wasteful - every step has pretty bad efficiency losses - but there are cost & safety issues to balance against 'maximum efficiency'. Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day Jennifer and Paul, Reading your posts it sounds as if either AA's or device specific custom rechargeable batteries will work well by using a master lead acid (or maybe these days a LiFeP) rechargeable 12V battery. Jennifer's words "when I'm out on the water I want the GPS to WORK persuade me that maybe staying with the rechargeables that come with the GPS (and VHF) is the best way to go and you both point out how straight forward it is to use an intermediary 12V battery. I completely agree with Paul, theres no way I'd expose connectors or charge up expensive devices in/on a kayak. The trick will be preventing water finding its way along the inside or the outside of the cables leading from the panel and through the deck. But if rooftop panels can survive then the deck top should be possible also. Re the solar panel on the kayak vs a fold up unit for the camp site - The deck option has the advantage of extended times for charging in a shadow free environment This is a personal choice as I'm likely to spend more time on water than land. For this application I'm definitely looking for flexible panel units, preferably with diode protection on each cell to overcome the line shadow problem which as Paul mentioned, can switch off large areas of cells in a crystalline panel. Unisolar flexible arrays may be worth checking out but I'm keen to look at the specs on the Brunton Solarport folding panel that Jennifer described. Has it lasted well over the years? Many thanks for the feedback. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter If you find a GPS you really like - you'll probably put up with whatever it uses for batteries. I was just lucky that I liked the size & capabilities of mine - and it used AAs. I guess it was midway between a requirement and a bonus ;-) I know I sound like a shill for Sanyo (I'm not), but I can't speak too highly of the Eneloop AAs. All my previous (good quality) NiMH AA cells would lose charge over a couple of weeks and I had to hustle round and charge them all up before a trip. It was a pain. The Eneloops trade off a little life-span but employ tricks to hold onto their charge tenaciously - a bit like Lithiums do (but at a much lower price). Otherwise they just act like any good rechargeable. I love them. A couple of AA tips that work well for me: (a) When I buy cells, I mark them in pairs with a number (1,1 2,2 etc) in heavy black felt-tip pen (bad-light readable). As everything I have uses them in 2's or 4's - they can stay together as pairs through their lifetime of discharge - recharge cycles. I believe that gives them a better life expectancy. As the numbers increase (with each new purchase), it also gives me an idea of how old they are - just by looking at the number. (b) I sew up simple rip-stop nylon pouches for sets of 4 AAs - just large enough to have them lie side-by-side (like spoons or wrenches in a fabric fold). The bags weigh nothing. With a tight velcro-ed down flap over the open end of the 4 battery 'tubes', the bag winds up being only a little bigger than the 4 batteries. It keeps them clean and stops them shorting out on anything (or each other). It also makes them easy to count and keep organised. An empty bag mean batteries missing - find them ! I also preserve a simple routine - nipples-out are 'ready for action', nipples-in need a recharge - you can tell that in the dark. Hope those ideas give some of you some help - or just a laugh ;-) Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Uhh... I have to admit you made me laugh... Ari Saarto Finland - navigare necesse est - http://asaarto1.blogspot.com/ On 20. loka 2009, at 14:09, Paul Hayward wrote: > I also preserve > a simple routine - nipples-out are 'ready for action', nipples-in > need a > recharge - you can tell that in the dark. > > Hope those ideas give some of you some help - or just a laugh ;-) > > Best Regards > Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter and all Keep us posted on the solar panel project. I try and keep the deck clear of 'stuff', but between 3 hatch covers, a deck compass, a map, a split paddle and oft-times a water bottle - there's not huge acreage for panels. > there's no way I'd expose connectors Has anyone had any bright ideas for getting 12V power through the deck or bulkhead in a salt-water environment? I'm open to anything from induction to plugs & sockets pinched from Jetskis (gasp). I could use it for pumps (never done an electric one - but one's been sitting on the bench for two years), pole lights, and solar cells. Perhaps if the cells were attached robustly enough for waves, they would take car-roof wind speed in their stride - so it might be easier to just hard-wire them into the boat - leaving plugs & sockets in a dry environment under the hatch. Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Hayward wrote: > Has anyone had any bright ideas for getting 12V power through the deck or > bulkhead in a salt-water environment? I'm open to anything from induction to > plugs & sockets pinched from Jetskis (gasp). I could use it for pumps (never > done an electric one - but one's been sitting on the bench for two years), > pole lights, and solar cells. Paul, these might work for you: http://bluesea.com/category/9/productline/overview/1 I use them on the console of my power boat. They eliminate any connectors at the deck pass-through, passing the wire intact through the hull. They come in a couple of different diameters, to accommodate end-connectors of different diameters. Had a pair on the console for three years now and going strong. Blue Sea is a respected manufacturer of electrical gear tailored for marine use. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Has anyone had any bright ideas for getting 12V power through the deck ---- or bulkhead in a salt-water environment? I'm now using IP67 connectors both flying, i.e. connecting two wires, and as throughput into switch boxes. Have a look at this catalogue for identification of parts: http://www.svb.de/index.php?sid=1ba98726e71d37b277e0619671d46417&&cl=cat alog_env&anid=284&pageid=110 Bty: my previous kayak caught fire this summer about 2 hours after being left in a container. The whole morning had been spent with water in the cockpit during rescue practice and the bailing pump system with air-actuated switch, waterproof switchbox and gel-battery was located in the cockpit. The lead-acid battery for the bailing pump may have been connected with a cable, that was not up to standard, or the sealed switch box may not have been sealed enough. It's likely that leaking current had heated parts so that the fuse couldn't prevent the outcome. Anyway, we shall never know. The kayak was completely destroyed. At the same time another 10 kayaks in the container were destroyed by fire and heat. A very sad story. Best regards Jens Viggo Moesmand Denmark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jens said on 24 October 2009 > I'm now using IP67 connectors and > my previous kayak caught fire this summer Thanks Jens - both for the useful link and for the reminder that it doesn't have to be LiPo to go horribly wrong. it can happen whenever & however lots of energy is stored in a small box. Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:26:25 +1000, "rebyl_kayak" <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com> said: ... I'm definitely looking for > flexible panel units, preferably with diode protection on each cell to > overcome the line shadow problem which as Paul mentioned, can switch off > large areas of cells in a crystalline panel. Unisolar flexible arrays may > be worth checking out but I'm keen to look at the specs on the Brunton > Solarport folding panel that Jennifer described. Has it lasted well over > the years? > Hi again Peter, The SolarPort I have is one of the originals. There were precious few options for portable solar when I made that decision, and it has indeed performed fine. Using it enroute in a kayak is problematic because of its relative thickness and the requirement to keep it dry. I used a large, clear, flexible map-case type of bag when I needed to strap it to the deck but never felt really good about that configuration. Being able to close it up when packing etc helps alot to keep it safe. Brunton is really upgrading the solar power line, and now has devices with integrated LiPoly batteries and all. These are interesting but high $$ options. If I do something again, I would seriously look at mounting a made-to-be-tough laminated panel permanently to the deck, running the cable into one of the compartments (probably day hatch) through a sealed penetration, and housing the connected stuff (mini-controller (I use a morningstar), outlets (usb, 12V, etc) and devices (chargers) in one of the larger otter-box things. There are lots of ideas on mounting a battery in the hatch (usually for pump but the tech is portable) and there are lots of battery options now too, although I still think the AGM type is the best overall for cost v. performance (and you can roll it). You can get a little (3.5"L x 3"W x 4"H ) 5AH AGM that weighs under 4 pounds and, combined with charging extra batteries enroute, should be more than adequate for evening recharges and/or rainy days. The "bearproof" panel I use (abuse?) is the 30W version of this one: http://www.powerupco.com/panels/oem/bsp1012L.php - which is the one I would most consider mounting to the deck. My take is that this is more indestructable than many of the roll-up or flexible ones available but YMMV. Mine survived a direct hit from a large maple limb in mid-winter. Please post your installed configuration!! Jennifer -- Jennifer Pivovar jpivovar_at_headwinds.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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