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From: rebyl_kayak <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A last turn on Global Warning -> exercise and power -> rechargeable batteries for kayak equipment - will they work?
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:57:31 +1000
PeterO wrote:
>I'm not aware of an history of fire sor hazards for
>a LiFeP battery. But you raised the possibility of water, salt water)
ingress
>and I've no idea what the result would be.

G'Day Tord and Dave,

I've found a couple of material data safety sheets
http://www.internationalbatteryllc.com/MSDS/MSDS_IB-FHE.pdf and
http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/MSDS_LiFePO4.pdf

They both suggest there is no hazard when exposed to normal use. Both point
out there is a hazard if the battery is ruptured, short circuited or exposed
to fire or near an open flame. One of them includes seawater amongst materials
to avoid along  with conductive materials, water, strong oxidizers and strong
acids, I'm guessing thi is because of the risk of corrosion or short circuit.

I'd certainly value any thoughts you had about using lithium iron phophate
batteries in a kayak. It doesn't look as if there is the possibility of
spontaneous combustion that exists with some of the lithum cobalt batteries
but its evident they would need to be carefully enclosed and regularly
inspected to avoid corrosion or short circuit.

All the best, PeterO
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From: <tord_at_mindless.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A last turn on Global Warning -> (snip) -> rechargeable batteries for kayak equipment - will they work?
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:55:33 -0400
 With LiFeP packs I have no issues - they are as safe as the majority
of rechargeable batteries, and better than the packs in a Prius:
they burn like Hell (no joke!). Haven't received any Paddlewise for
quite a few days, by the way, so thanks to you fellas (and ladies) who
send copies of their mails direct!

Traffic, another modern man's plague:

Locally, the traffic situation is getting seriously congested, and the
air is getting seriously polluted most of the year, so the
wise guys at the helm of our town has put their thinking caps on:
Too many cars congest and pollute the inner city, so let's build a
chain of toll booths around the city - which at least in London has
worked well.

So they want to introduce these tolls ASAP, say in 2011. BUT there
are a lot of problems in connection with this:

1. A lot of the people traveling into the city comes from surrounding
lesser towns and villages, thus would all need to come by train, and the
train system is stretched close to the limit, as it is, as there never have
been
so many trains as now, on the existing tracks. The passenger trains
have to compete for room on the tracks with slower goods trains, as
quite a lot of goods are again transported by rail. To improve the situation
we would need lots of new tracks, which the government-owned
company that lay down the tracks can't do in a jiffy (not enough
money, not enough resources, and then it is all the planning that
needs to be done, the handling of any complaints, and the court cases
that are bound to pop up about whose gardens will be transformed into
tracks, and so on).

Banverket's, the track company's, plans, as they stand today,
is that the the upgrade of the tracks will be finished by 2016, but no
promises! The trains themselves are run by various companies,
after glorious EU deregulation, which are also stretched to the limit,
due to the present economic downturn. If things pick up the
demand will rise far quicker than new trains can be ordered and
delivered!

2. More local travelers would then need to turn to me and my mates, that is,
switch to traveling by trams and buses. The problem is that these resources
are also stretched to the limit during 'rush hour' (nowadays that is from 7 am
to 8 pm, with a few quieter hours in between 10 am to 2 pm). Again, buying
new rolling tram stock is very expensive (but classic trams last for ever -
nobody knows if today's electronic wonders will last nearly as long).

Worse is that new tram tracks take years to lay, and cost billions (in
kronor),
so a hugely improved capacity is not very likely in the next decade, or so!
More buses are cheaper, but take a year, or two, from order to delivery,
and cost hundreds of millions - which the company owner(s) doesn't have.

Even today, again due to the glorious free market forces, maintenance
of the rolling stock (trains, buses and trams) is on a shoe-string budget,
and the more electronic gizmos that are built-in, the more often they
break down, thus total breakdowns are increasingly common.
All is not glum, as the towing companies are doing just fine :-)!

In short it is beginning to be like a parody.

3. Part of our city is located on an island called Hisingen (it is actually
part of the main land, but the river bifurcates just north of Gothenburg,
so we call it an island). The main highway from the continent to Norway
passes over our island, and the main connection from Denmark to Finland
passes through the city as well. So, our two bridges and single tunnel are,
at rush-hour, filled by commuters, while the tunnel, at night, is almost
filled
with trucks going towards the northwestern parts of Scandinavia, or returning
to southern, or central, Europe.

So we need a new bridge and a tunnel, ASAP, as the oldest bridge is
considered a collapse in the making (very last date of use 2020), and those
are to be financed by the road tolls, mentioned above, but as 2 follows 1,
it will be worse chaos, the next decade, before things settles down.

Today, at rush hour (see above) a single stalled car, in the tunnel
(which carries thousands of cars, and possibly 100,000 cars) on any
of the two bridges (the old ones carry the trams across the river, in
addition to numerous buses - say 500 a day, plus maybe ten thousand
cars, the new carries even more cars, and lots of trucks, many heading
for the various Volvo plants on the 'island' - our island is home for most
things
Volvo, including most HQs).

So if the old draw bridge falls down before being decommissioned things
will get very nasty indeed. This summer the old tunnel has been refurbished,
and further repairs are scheduled for next summer, and even if traffic
normally
is down 20% during the vacation season, mile long queues were the norm, even
though the two-tube tunnel was only closed 50%. I am very happy I now both
work and live on the island, and can do without the bridges and tunnel most of
the
time! I work on both sides, but I have my own lane then across the old bridge
:-)!

To add to the chaos, most people that work, or study, downtown live either on
the island,
or in the communities dotted around Gothenburg, and the Volvo workers commute
the other way! Logical, ain't it?! The oil companies are happy as punch, of
course!

Ah, brave new world, where the h*ll are we heading?!
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A last turn on Global Warning -> (snip) -> rechargeable batteries for kayak equipment - will they work?
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:43:17 -0700
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:55 AM, <tord_at_mindless.com> wrote:

>
> Traffic, another modern man's plague:
>
> Tord's full remarks probably apply to every large city (which is one reason
I no longer live in a large city). The USA's solution to traffic has always
been to build more freeways but even we are running out of room for them.

I do a lot of remote work from my comfortable sofa in my Spongebob jammies
and personally feel that a great many people could do the same but don't.
For numerous reasons; some good and some not so good, I expect. Earlier in
my life I would have resisted tele-commuting as I quite enjoyed the give and
take of office work and occasionally heading out to the plant to watch my
creations take form. But we used slide rules and drafting machines then and
thought we had traffic problems but didn't, really. Little did I realize how
my HP35 and early work on an Intel 4004 was going to change things.

Cisco, a company about which I have mixed feelings, has been touting a
virtual office in which you set up a cubicle in the corner of one of your
rooms at home and then that cubicle becomes your "office" at the office via
a VPN (virtual private network) and high bandwidth audio/video. I envision a
line of 50-inch LCD monitors each with a virtual office displayed on them
extending down a hallway at some company headquarters. If there is a group
meeting then they simply switch your a/v to the room where the meeting is to
take place... with both human and virtual attendees. More monitors.

It's at least a partial solution. I'm not sure it would work well for
factory workers what with latency and plant failures, etc. But perhaps one
day you could be a CNC machine operator from your kitchen. Or drive a
tractor from your flat in Singapore.

Certainly it's feasible... if expensive. Probably much less expensive than
the way we're headed now. Especially for island cities like where Tord lives
and works.

Craig
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