Mike, I hear your passion and believe I understand why you disagree with what society is trying to do about climate change, maybe things aren't as clearcut as any of us would like. Are we as humans in our activitiws changing things, probably, do we definitively understand cause and effect, probably not. If the data was published, how many of us are capable of analysis of multi variant data that probably has a lot of holes, probably not very many. I think that in general our systems of managing things are pretty good, but since we have such a difficult time assigning cost to the use of common resources such as air amd water, we will always struggle to do things as well as we can. We can get about 30% more power out of coal than we currently do, it would save our society money and create less pollution, but since it reduces profitability in the power industry because of the way our regulations are written, we don't do it. Fear of climate change may have some similarity to fear of the rapture in religion. Some things will be argued based on fact, some will be argued based on belie, some believers will tend to bend the truth. Others will figure out how to bend the facts to increase their power or their wealth, that's human nature. Can parts of the world grow colder, while the world overall gets warmer?, probably. Is oil one of our societies most valuable assets in terms of increased standard of living, definitely, high energy content, easy to transport, good infrastructure to utilize it. Do we tret it as such, not really. Does our high consumption rate have many poorly tracked impacts, yes. Could we be better off if we matched our consumption to our utilization, probably. All we can do is make a sincere effort to tread lightly to try and minimize the disruptions we cause so that those we love can enjoy a life like ours. On your second series of thoughts on the impact of our regulations on our economy, they're real. Would deregulation make them better, make us more successful and China less so, would you want to live in that world. It's pretty easy to find out just spend a couple of months in China. The advantages rhey get include power imbalances between classes, pollution, cheap labor, an almost communal belief in the rightness of their society, lack of IP protection (say goodbye to wealthy architects, engineers and inventors). Do politicians do stupid things out of malice, sometimes, do they do stupid things out of stupidity, definitely. All that said, it's ime to get in our kayaks and enjoy this wonderful world of ours. I'm off for a bicycle ride through Budapest tommorow and a snowshoe and a paddle in Seattle with friends next week. While my house is insulated, I still haven't turned on my heat yet this year and while it's less conienient than driving, I took my bike and the bus to work evert day last week. Let's go paddling. Another west coaster who thinks we can make this an even better place. ~ Saul -original message- Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:57:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Thank you global warming Craig, All interesting local facts, observed and documented. How about October snow in the Sierras, the usual is hope for snow by Thanksgiving? Two or three years ago winter lasted 7 months, from a friend who lives there. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:25 AM, <saul_at_isomedia.com> wrote: > > On your second series of thoughts on the impact of our regulations on our > economy, they're real. Would deregulation make them better, make us more > successful and China less so, would you want to live in that world. It's > pretty easy to find out just spend a couple of months in China. The > advantages rhey get include power imbalances between classes, pollution, > cheap labor, an almost communal belief in the rightness of their society, > lack of IP protection (say goodbye to wealthy architects, engineers and > inventors). > > Interesting thoughts, especially regarding China. My son-in-law is on his way back to China right now for work. He has to go there sevferal times a year. His company does consulting to the Chinese to help implement their plan to move to solar and hydroelectric. His specialty is in the methods of producing silicon for solar panels. According to him the Chinese actually have regulations that will require them to move to distributed power generation by 2050 or sooner. However, right now it's terrible. The coal plants that they use for power generation (and the place he goes is right next to one for the obvious convenience of delivery of power) produce incredible pollution. And the workers have dormitories next ot the plant where they live most of the year (with occasional visits home). Even so, the jobs are in high demand. However he is pretty sure he wouldn't want to do it full time. And he has turned down offers to move his family there. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, Your son will keep pretty busy there for at least the time being. If his contract is for only one plant then they will probably scale it or copy it to others, if his contract is for the overall design and process then it should be fine. Yes they are making a big effort to clean things up, since with or without GW, but with a form of socialized medicine the costs are measurable to them. A company I worked for a few years ago, was in the process of negotiating a contract to clean up the operations of their coal plants as a stop gap. I don't think it ever went through due to the time/labor constraints that were part of the original proposal. Saul > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:25 AM, <saul_at_isomedia.com> wrote: > >> >> On your second series of thoughts on the impact of our regulations on >> our >> economy, they're real. Would deregulation make them better, make us more >> successful and China less so, would you want to live in that world. It's >> pretty easy to find out just spend a couple of months in China. The >> advantages rhey get include power imbalances between classes, pollution, >> cheap labor, an almost communal belief in the rightness of their >> society, >> lack of IP protection (say goodbye to wealthy architects, engineers and >> inventors). >> >> Interesting thoughts, especially regarding China. My son-in-law is on >> his > way back to China right now for work. He has to go there sevferal times a > year. His company does consulting to the Chinese to help implement their > plan to move to solar and hydroelectric. His specialty is in the methods > of > producing silicon for solar panels. According to him the Chinese actually > have regulations that will require them to move to distributed power > generation by 2050 or sooner. > > However, right now it's terrible. The coal plants that they use for power > generation (and the place he goes is right next to one for the obvious > convenience of delivery of power) produce incredible pollution. And the > workers have dormitories next ot the plant where they live most of the > year > (with occasional visits home). Even so, the jobs are in high demand. > However > he is pretty sure he wouldn't want to do it full time. > > And he has turned down offers to move his family there. > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA > www.nwkayaking.net > Saul Kinderis saul_at_isomedia.com cell 206.313.0107 http://www.isomedia.com/homes/saul *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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