Re: [Paddlewise] Wing paddle and hull speed was (Re: Who Took Shaun White Sea Kayaking?)

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 8:23 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE
<marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>wrote:

> I'm sorry to have gotten you thinking Craig.


It's a nasty habit. Most people seem to be able to break it pretty easily,
however. You, apparently, aren't one. :P


> A wing will work in any fluid.
>

LOL... ya it must've been late. It's what happens when an electronics guy
thinks too much about physical things.


> As
> for it being faster, Paul Hayward has a good point. ..... So if you are
> limited to

using your Mariner II you might do well to
> test it using a longer course and doing it before you get in better shape.


Paul has an excellent point and an easy one to overlook. It certainly had't
occurred to me 'til he mentioned it.

I could use the Express. The big Nimbus is kind of beamy for a good wing
stroke (as is the F-1). But I think I can push the Express to hull speed
easier than the Mariner II.

My short course is about 1.5 (statute) miles (we are inland and on a lake,
after all) and my long course is about 2.3 miles. They depend on whether I
cut through a grass island (shallow and slow) or not. I often do that just
to check out the birds nesting in the island. Otherwise the long-course line
from my dock runs 1/4 mile to the cut under the I-90 freeway and then
straight to the turn-around (a distinctive rock that rises above the water)
and back.

I am pretty sure that even if I were in the best shape ever I couldn't push
the Mariner II to hull speed for over 2 miles; even statute miles.... with
any paddle. What I'd like to be is in good enough shape physically so that a
week of test paddling doesn't improve me significantly in that time period.
I don't want to be in better shape by the time I get to the third paddle
than I was at the first paddle.

My personal opinion is that it
> does allow you to go just a bit further with each stroke (but also requires
> that you put in the extra energy to push the kayak further during that
> stroke)
> so the efficiency difference is small and due mostly to the less time
> wasted
> expending energy between strokes. Certainly a racer's edge in sprint racing
> using the wing, but not as much as many claim.


I am, by no means, a sprint racer. And the edge that a wing gives to a
well-conditioned athlete would not apply to me. I will be 67 years old when
I do this, after all. I am curious to see whether the wing I use (which no
one makes any more) makes a clear difference for me as opposed to a
Lightning paddle (which no one makes any more).

It's interesting that a couple summers ago Dave Kruger tried my wing out and
even though it was his first time with a wing it was damned hard to keep up
with him while he was paddling with it. He didn't like it much. In fact,
almost no one likes it much. LOL

However, there are so many
> downsides to the wing shape in what you can do with it for controlling the
> kayak (and limiting your repratrare of strokes) that if there isn't much
> speed
> or paddling ease advantage at the speeds you might normally paddle you
> would
> be better off using the wing stroke with a non-wing paddle.


A couple of years paddling with *my* wing would certainly lead me to that
conclusion as well. However my wing may not be representative of the wing
paddles available now and certainly not of the wing Freya used. My wing
paddle was made by Werner for the U.S. Canoe and Kayak Team (conspicuously
marked). It's stiff and relatively heavy. I'm pretty sure it was used as a
sprint paddle in competition. I bought it from an ad on craigslist for about
$100 several years ago. Hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time. There
weren't many wing paddles around (and almost none used) but they were
getting more press and I wanted to play with one without spending $400.

My wing has one thing in common with all wing paddles I've looked at: it
feels unbalanced. If you hold the paddle as it was intended to be held for a
paddle stroke and just loosen your grip the paddle will flop over to an
inverted position. For me this means that I have to hold the paddle firmly
and think about which face is "active".

Also, my wing is difficult to use in a low brace position without being
*very* careful which side of the paddle you are bracing with and the angle
of attack. If you brace with the *wrong* side (with the forward edge - the
winged shape - down) the paddle will catch and trip you. So you have to be
sure to brace with the leading edge facing up. But the wing is very
sensitive to angle and if you angle it a little bit down it will dive and
take you and your kayak with it. Most paddles do this but the wing is even
more pronounced.

My wing is not very good at back-paddling and it's terrible at draw strokes
and sculling. On the other hand my wing excels at rolling, high braces, and
bow rudders; as long as you are careful which side of the blade is active.


> If you have a
> Greenland stick add it to the test mix too.
>

I do have a Greenland paddle, actually. I made it myself at Brian Schulz's
class in Oregon last year. In my inexpert hands it flutters like a bat
flying in a hailstorm and actually is kind of scary. I suspect it's not
exactly perfect. Everyone swears that they are great paddles so it's
probably just me and/or my first-time attempt at making one. I was going to
ask Duane if I could try one of his paddles in CA but I wasn't up to
paddling much that day.

So I guess I'll have to add that to the mix too.... golly, that should be
fun. :D


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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