G'Day, In Australia, remote area marine weather prediction usually depends on a short wave radio and a decent knowledge of local and national weather broadcast schedules. It's a bit of an art as you don't get to see synoptic charts and need to develop your own idea of changing regional trends ands forecast reliability by tracking the broadcast weather observations. Sat phones are starting to be used but are very expensive to hire buy and operate - they also chew through batteries at a rate of knots. I've recently come across HF internet, that is using shortwave radio to access the internet. http://www.winlink.org/ Makes me wonder how practical it would be to download a synoptic chart onto a handheld computer linked to a portable SW receiver. I'm not sure yet how its done, whether one needs an HF transmitter or whether hooking up to a shortwave receiver is enough? Does anyone have any experience in this area? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PS an overview of HF Internet is given here: http://www.ips.gov.au/Category/Educational/Other%20Topics/Radio%20Communicat ion/Internet_Access_Via_HF.pdf All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 6:55 PM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > > I've recently come across HF internet, that is using shortwave radio to > access the internet. http://www.winlink.org/ Makes me wonder how practical > it would be to download a synoptic chart onto a handheld computer linked to > a portable SW receiver. I'm not sure yet how its done, whether one needs an > HF transmitter or whether hooking up to a shortwave receiver is enough? > > Does anyone have any experience in this area? > The biggest drawback to using HF radio for internet connections is the lack of bandwidth. To simplify, bandwidth requires... wide bandwidths.... and HF radio is limited in its frequencies (essentially 2mhz to 30mhz) so much that no more than about 9600bps(if that!) is possible. You can improve that somewhat by using compaction algorythms but the bandwidth is still nowhere near "fast". Then there are the comlpications caused by multipath, distance, phase differences, etc. which further reduce throughput. Weatherfax is, however, entirely possible using HF frequencies and most modern weather services and coast guards use it. It's not new but it's effective most of the time. But this is by no means a new technology. Winlink is normally used for email and is pretty satisfactory for that but attachments are still problematic because of the bandwidth limitations. I used to use an ancient Zenith Z-181 laptop for weatherfax and morse broadcasts when I was working on ships. It was valuable because I didn't need to use paper... we could just receive a fax, look at it, print it if it was pertinent and if not just wait for the next one. The problem with a handheld will be getting the audio into the computer but there is no reason you couldn't use an Iphone (or similar) or any netbook computer to do the same things. I recommend fax for weather and winlink for email. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote: > ....Weatherfax is, however, entirely possible using HF frequencies and most >modern weather services and coast guards use it. It's not new but it's >effective most of the time. But this is by no means a new technology. >Winlink is normally used for email and is pretty satisfactory for that but >attachments are still problematic because of the bandwidth limitations. G'Day Craig, Thanks very much for that excellent advice and I've found several scheduled HF fax broadcasts for synoptic charts for Australia at http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDG00074.shtml . Now the question is whether there is hardware and software available to link the audio from an SSB transmission to a handheld or very small computer and then interpret the signal? Sounds like a tall order but almost anything is possible on Paddlewise! All the best, Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter.... there are several accessories used by amateur radio operators which will interface nicely with your laptop via a RS232 (or USB to RS232) connection. The one I have is old (PK232) but it will decode RTTY, AMTOR/SITOR, CW, and FAX and send the results to your laptop. This is not the only unit but it's still available in updated form. Special software is required to take the data in and display it on your screen but it would not amaze me to discover that someone has written something for smart phones to do the job. Ham licenses are pretty handy for sea going folks and not as hard to get as they once were (generally no morse code requirements any more). Craig Jungers, K7EXJ Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:37 PM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > Craig wrote: > > ....Weatherfax is, however, entirely possible using HF frequencies and > most > >modern weather services and coast guards use it. It's not new but it's > >effective most of the time. But this is by no means a new technology. > >Winlink is normally used for email and is pretty satisfactory for that but > >attachments are still problematic because of the bandwidth limitations. > > > G'Day Craig, > > Thanks very much for that excellent advice and I've found several scheduled > HF fax broadcasts for synoptic charts for Australia at > http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDG00074.shtml . Now the question is > whether > there is hardware and software available to link the audio from an SSB > transmission to a handheld or very small computer and then interpret the > signal? Sounds like a tall order but almost anything is possible on > Paddlewise! > > All the best, Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote >There seems to be plenty of software for PCs on the web amateur radio sites G'Day Craig, Thanks for that I'm making progress. No need for a ham license though its sort of good and sort of sad to see that morse is no longer used much or required - but morse was always my weak point. After considering your first email I'm aiming at not using a transmitter and restricting myself to scheduled broadcasts on non paddling days or days when I'm up early (4:15am). The signal takes 15 to 30 minutes to download so it can't be automated because of the almost inevitable need to shift frequencies during the transmission and the problem of selecting the right frequency in the first place. I'm not using a very versatile receiver here, just a Sony ICF-SW7600GR synchronous dual conversion SSB - albeit the technology is wonderfully sensitive and compact. If I were to use an HF transmitter it would be a lot of fun but also a lot of weight and batteries and significantly increased signal propagation issues as you also mentioned. It would then be much more practical to use a satphone and hang the cost! All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well learning morse and carrying a small QRP (very low power xmtr) 4-band transceiver will certainly come in handy. A satphone is more reliable of course, but there are any number of hams who would be eager to monitor frequencies at sceduled times in order to get your position and relay weather data. A surprising amount of information can be conveyed using CW. As for expense, there are QRP xcvr kits for under $100 but in general 5-watt CW QRP rigs cost around $300. Batteries are not that big of a problem for a 5-watt unit but you might want to consider gel-cells and a solar panel (roll-up sort - 30-watt would be good, too). I have, personally (while cruising on our yacht) coordinated the rescue of several yachts using morse to talk to the yacht in trouble and SSB to contact rescue vessels. There used to be a group of tuna boats in the Pacific monitoring a 15-meter ham net and they were instrumental in getting folks off their boats safely. Elecraft is one kit manufacturer that comes highly recommended but there are even less expensive rigs out there. One is the "rockless QRP" rig for which parts are available for under $100 and fits in a sardine tin. :) In BC (Canada) almost the entire inside passage is covered by VHF amateur repeaters which can be linked together to talk all the way down to Seattle. Very handy for paddlers using only a 144Mhz handheld. My wife is also a ham and in the old days (BC... before cells) we used VHF ham radios for our communications and often even phone calls. I even used 2-meters to link my Z-181 with my home computer and collect my email via a unix-like operating system from a base camp on San Juan Island. I am not at all certain you could do that today. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:32 PM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > Craig wrote > >There seems to be plenty of software for PCs on the web amateur radio > sites > > G'Day Craig, > > Thanks for that I'm making progress. No need for a ham license though its > sort of good and sort of sad to see that morse is no longer used much or > required - but morse was always my weak point. > > After considering your first email I'm aiming at not using a transmitter > and restricting myself to scheduled broadcasts on non paddling days or days > when I'm up early (4:15am). The signal takes 15 to 30 minutes to download so > it can't be automated because of the almost inevitable need to shift > frequencies during the transmission and the problem of selecting the right > frequency in the first place. I'm not using a very versatile receiver here, > just a Sony ICF-SW7600GR synchronous dual conversion SSB - albeit the > technology is wonderfully sensitive and compact. > > If I were to use an HF transmitter it would be a lot of fun but also a lot > of weight and batteries and significantly increased signal propagation > issues as you also mentioned. It would then be much more practical to use a > satphone and hang the cost! > > All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day Craig, I have operator licenses for VHF and HF marine radio transceivers but not the amateur radio license. Unfortunately the VHF repeater stations have been closed down along much of our coast line. So far I've only been involved in two or three rescues that involved VHF radio and we managed, just barely, to get by relaying VHF signals around headlands. Interesting that rescue authorities here worry about EPIRBs but have little compunction about shutting down radio repeater services. Different departments of gov't! IMHO it was the loss of a really important resource when morse was abandoned as an international radio distress signal. These days I don't know anyone who knows morse except perhaps Peter Rattenbury and yourself. SSB should be almost as good as far as signal propagation goes but not as far as the capacity of an ear to pick signal out of noise. I hadn't thought about QRP transmitters - that just might be transportable (and waterproofable) in a larger kayak. Not sure where radio amateurs would stand using such a transmitter on marine frequencies? Also I'm in a kayak so any such transmissions would only be practical from shore I think. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day Craig, After your posts I took a look at QRP transceivers and was amazed at how small they had become - haven't looked at amateur radio for years though when I was a kid I used to spend almost every waking moment thinking about, designing and building shortwave radio receivers. In fact my earliest engagement in a marine rescue operation (so minor it was irrelevant) was when the pirate radio station Radio Caroline sank slowly into the sea. The latest units looked as though they could be very useful in the early stages of a rescue operation. Though I think radio hams in Oz would use CB emergency channels or one of several networks of operators dedicated to providing emergency services such as http://www.vks737.on.net/ . I'm not certain but I don't believe Australian radio amateurs have as much freedom of channel use in an emergency as they do in the US. The receivers on most of the QRP transceivers I looked at, didn't have the frequency coverage and stability, or selectivity, to allow following our weather radio broadcasts. The time window is quite tight and if you miss something you might have to wait up to 12 hours for the next forecast. However, I'd bow to Peter Rattenbury's experience if he's had the chance to use one over here. A unit that came close was the Yaesu FT817. Without knowing much about this unit the only real weakness seemed to be lack of pre-programmed digital frequency selection that allows a quick change of frequency if a channel starts to fade. I'd love to see/hear one in action. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'day Craig, Well your guidance worked very well. All I had to do was connect the computer internal sound card to my SW radio earphone output, download two pieces of software: Weatherfax 2000 and Comm32; and after an afternoon of tuning the audio signal its working remarkably well. I had to use SSB as the signal was far to weak for AM FSK and with SSB neither piece of software was adequate by itself but by using the Comms 32 spectrum analysiser and the Weatherfax decoder I'm getting quite readable albeit slanted fax displays of synoptic charts etc. Lots of improvements left to do ie getting rid of the slant and improving signal to noise and I'm sure an external demodulator will be a much better option than the sound card but its all looking very promising at 10 minutes a download plus ten minutes for preliminary tuning and probably ten minutes setup of aerials in the bush! Thanks again and all the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 2:13 AM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > > > Well your guidance worked very well. All I had to do was connect the > computer internal sound card to my SW radio earphone output, download two > pieces of software: Weatherfax 2000 and Comm32; and after an afternoon of > tuning the audio signal its working remarkably well. > > Peter... that's terrrific. Thanks for the update. Frankly I have not played with this stuff for a long time. But I am planning to move into some of the new amateur digital modes using one of the tiny QRP units. I do have several mobile ham HF transceivers which I am going to install on the muthah-ship so it's nice to know that the sound card interface works!!! You might like to know that I garnered a bit of a reputation around here by using weatherfax. When Sue and I first moved to the farm in Royal City we took over an alfalfa operation. One of the big problems with alfalfa is that you need 5 to 7 days of rain-free weather after cutting (swathing) to dry the crop before it's suitable to bale. Any significant rain can completely ruin a US$30k harvest. I used my ham radio gear to go back to the weatherfax frequencies and watch the storms making their way across the northern North Pacific. After a bit of time I could determine that it generally took a storm with a low pressure of less than about 910mb to produce rain here after passing over the 12,000 foot Cascade Mountains. After a few years the other operators started to notice that I never got caught in the rain and began to mimic me.... cutting when I did even when lots of others already had their alfalfa on the ground. I wonder what they did when I moved away. LOL. Glad this system is working for you. Please keep us all updated about how it works in real life paddling. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > I used my ham radio gear to go back to the weatherfax frequencies and > watch the storms making their way across the northern North Pacific. > After a bit of time I could determine that it generally took a storm > with a low pressure of less than about 910mb to produce rain here after > passing over the 12,000 foot Cascade Mountains. After a few years the > other operators started to notice that I never got caught in the rain > and began to mimic me.... cutting when I did even when lots of others > already had their alfalfa on the ground. I wonder what they did when I > moved away. LOL. Craig, Good to know you have a background in alfalfa and know how to use weather information. Not so good that you think the Cascades typically run to 12000 ft. Rainier _alone_ stacks up to over 14,000, and Adams, the next tallest, is over 12. Nothing else is much over 8000 or 9000 except for Mt. Baker, Glacier Peak, and a couple oddballs in the very northern Cascades, while the ridge of the Washington Cascades up-weather from you averages about 5000-6000 ft. Adams is bulky, but too narrow to affect the weather where you are -- storms just slide around it. Its rain shadow barely affects Yakima. Paddling content: you can't paddle on Mt Adams. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PS There seems to be plenty of software for PCs on the web amateur radio sites and all that's needed is a sound card so I'll modify my question and ask: - A) has anyone tried this sort of thing out with a shortwave SSB radio and small computer - can they recommend a program? B) are the fax encoding protocols likely to be according to an international standard? C) does anyone know of such a program for handhelds All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > > > There seems to be plenty of software for PCs on the web amateur radio sites > and all that's needed is a sound card so I'll modify my question and ask: - > > A) has anyone tried this sort of thing out with a shortwave SSB radio and > small computer - can they recommend a program? > I used a PK232 and PC Pakratt (sp?) for years along with an ancient Zenith Z-181 (no hard drive, just two 3-1/2 inch floppy drives) laptop (with DesqView for multi-tasking) on ships as a professional mariner. I think I'd recommend an external decoding device as opposed to the built-in sound card but it might be a moot point. The better the radio (and antenna) the better the results, > B) are the fax encoding protocols likely to be according to an > international > standard? > Yes, otherwise International shipping (the primary market) would not be able to decode them with standardized equipment. > C) does anyone know of such a program for handhelds > I don't... but there might be something out there. The problem is getting the data into the handheld as so few of them have RS232 or USB interfaces. I think I'd use a "netbook" (very small laptop) because the screen size becomes a problem reading fax prints. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote: - >The better the radio (and antenna) the better the results, Absolutely agree I always take a spool of wire and rig the best antennae I can manage - Not much point trying to fine tune it given the strict time windows and relatively long wavelengths but I do make sure its omni-directional to reduce the need to frequency shift during transmission. >Yes, otherwise International shipping (the primary market) >would not be able to decode them with standardized equipment. And >I'd use a "netbook" (very small laptop) because the screen size >becomes a problem reading fax prints. Good point - even my nice new prescription specs might not cope. Its starting to sound very practical - I'll try it out on my regular computer first and let you know how I go. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PS Craig, Forgot to say many thanks for all the good advice, very much appreciated! All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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