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From: skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 14:01:08 -0400
What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for carrying on your PFD? If you
carry it other than on your PFD, what is your system and choice of radios?

 

What general discussion do you have regarding VHF radios?

 

It is pretty easy these days to get boaters to carry cell phones, even
though their use is discouraged by authorities. Who has experience with
waterproof cell phones?

 

At least some parts of the Pacific Coast have a specific system for cell
phone calls by marine traffic. What is that?

 

On inland waters, lakes, rivers etc, are cell phones or VHF radios equally
effective?

 

Thanks,

Chuck Sutherland
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From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:45:12 -0700
Chuck,

I carry an Icom M72 for several reasons. I've had both Uniden and Standard
radios in the past and the Icom appears to be much more water proof. I also
like the fact that it has a 6 watt capability on high power as opposed to 5
for the others. Also, it's best feature is called "aqua quake". By pushing
and holding two buttons, the radio emits a loud tone for about 15 seconds to
drive water out of the speaker grill. Most radios that "failed" only
couldn't transmit or receive because there was water in the speaker grill.

This radio fits very well in the front pocket of my pfd. I have both a
Kokatat Pro-Fit and an Extrasport Retroglide.

To my knowledge, the radios don't work well on inland lakes and rivers
because there is nobody to monitor them. On the ocean, I don't carry a cell
phone because the VHF is so much better. Anybody who is monitoring Ch 16 can
hear an emergency call while a cell phone can only reach one number at a
time.

Steve Holtzman

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of skimmer
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:01 AM
To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; 'Craig Jungers'; douglloyd_at_shaw.ca; 'Greg
Welker'; 'Greg Welker'; 'Scott Hilliard'
Cc: 'Jackie Myers'; 'Nick Schade'; 'Martin, Jack'
Subject: [Paddlewise] VHF 

What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for carrying on your PFD? If you
carry it other than on your PFD, what is your system and choice of radios?

 

What general discussion do you have regarding VHF radios?

 

It is pretty easy these days to get boaters to carry cell phones, even
though their use is discouraged by authorities. Who has experience with
waterproof cell phones?

 

At least some parts of the Pacific Coast have a specific system for cell
phone calls by marine traffic. What is that?

 

On inland waters, lakes, rivers etc, are cell phones or VHF radios equally
effective?

 

Thanks,

Chuck Sutherland
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From: Jennifer Pivovar <jpivovar_at_headwinds.org>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:19:57 -0400
> -----Original Message-----

> Subject: [Paddlewise] VHF 
> 
> What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for carrying on your PFD? 
> What general discussion do you have regarding VHF radios?
  
I carry a Standard Horizon HX471S
It seemed the best choice at the time.  I do like that it has AM & FM
capability in addition to FRS, and if you've a mind to you can monitor
the aeronautical bands.
 
> On inland waters, lakes, rivers etc, are cell phones or VHF radios
> equally effective?

So far the inland waters comments have not pertained to what I think of
as inland waters - navigable waterways such as canals, rivers & lakes
that connect to the sea and can support commercial traffic.  In these
waters I think a VHF is more effective because most craft on the water
will be monitoring.  I can't quite fathom using a cell phone to try to
call someone on near land, explain where I was and wait for them to
muster some on-water assistance.  I guess it would be great if you had
to bail out somewhere and wanted to call for a ride, or call ahead so
the pizza is ready in port.  Now that I've written that, what I think is
that they are both good - for different scenarios.

-- 
  Jennifer Pivovar
  jpivovar_at_headwinds.org
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 12:49:22 -0700
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:01 AM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote:

>  What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for carrying on your PFD? If
> you carry it other than on your PFD, what is your system and choice of
> radios?
>
I have an Icom M32 which I carry in my Kokatat SeaO2 PFD pocket when I'm on
saltwater. Like Steve Holtzman, I've found a VHF to be useless on inland
lakes and rivers (other than for the WX broadcasts) simply because no one
listens. I didn't have a reason for buying the Icom other than that I've
used Icom radios a lot in amateur radio and found them to be reliable. The
M32 wouldn't be my choice now (probably the M72) but it's done its job well
and has a very quick charger.

I have some of an advantage by using a muthah-ship as my home base so I can
charge a VHF there rather than rely on carrying batteries. We also often go
with a trailer which also can charge. I don't do many long range trips so
it's not been an issue.

The M32 was on sale at West Marine at a good price when I bought it (3 or 4
years ago).

> What general discussion do you have regarding VHF radios?
>
As long as the batteries are charged (or fresh) using a VHF is pretty
simple. All of the modern handhelds that I've been familiar with turn on
with Channel 16 ready to communicate. Older models of radios with
switch-selected channels might be set to the last one used which might not
be Channel 16. Simply turn it on, listen for activity, and call for help.
It's nice to have a GPS so you can tell people where you are more accurately
but even "2 miles SW of Cattle Point" will work.

> It is pretty easy these days to get boaters to carry cell phones, even
> though their use is discouraged by authorities. Who has experience with
> waterproof cell phones?
>
I put my cell phone (an iPhone) in either a waterproof bag made for cell
phones or in a watertight plastic box. I usually tether the bag or box to
the boat but have been thinking that perhaps tucking it into the PFD pocket
with the VHF might be a better way. With a cell phone you have to be a bit
more direct with the operators and tell them explicitly what the problem is
and who they should contact on your behalf.

> At least some parts of the Pacific Coast have a specific system for cell
> phone calls by marine traffic. What is that?
>
I've never heard of that... we do have phone calls via VHF which generally
need an account with the carrier set up in advance. Prior to the widespread
use of cell phones this was virtually the only way to make telephone calls
from a boat to someone ashore (other than SSB which was not at all common).

>  On inland waters, lakes, rivers etc, are cell phones or VHF radios
> equally effective?
>

As both Steve H. and I have indicated, VHF use is so uncommonly used on
inland waters as to be completely ineffective. Cell phone use is spotty
depending upon the location of appropriate cell towers. Many lakes and
streams are not covered at all by any cellular system and other waters are
only covered when they are in close proximity to major highways or larger
cities. Emergency communications in remote areas are still very much
problematic.

Amateur radio VHF repeaters often have huge range (hundreds of miles) but
require a license unless it's a bona-fide emergency. Their frequencies are
near the VHF marine bands but do not overlap. You can, however, buy ham
handheld transceivers that cover both amateur and marine bands. These are
not often waterproof, however. In my opinion it's well worth a paddler's
time to get a ham license (no code required any more) if only for the
convenience. The entire inland passage of BC is covered by a system of
linked VHF repeaters, for instance.

SPOT, despite its many problems, is probably not a bad idea to use for many
kayakers as long as the people who are monitoring the reports don't panic at
the slightest delay in receiving them. The greatest handicap to SPOT is, of
course, the cost. But the system does work even in inland areas (at least in
North America).


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:25:42 +1000
Chuck wrote:
>What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for carrying on your PFD? If you
>carry it other than on your PFD, what is your system and choice of radios?


G'Day Chuck,

I use an Icom 72 but couldn't find a waterproof bag (Aquapac) that would fit
in my Kokatat PFD vest pocket so made my own 'semi' waterproof bag that
keeps the worst wave impact from the unit and allows ready access to the on
off rotary switch.

If anyone knows of a waterproof bag that will fit readily into a Kokatat PFD
or else a PFD that can accommodate an Icom72 I'd be glad to know of it.

I have on one occasion seen fog inside the glass of the LCD screen but it
cleared later and the unit seems to function but I was a bit worried that
this meant it was not as water proof as the advertising suggests, or that
the waterproofing had somehow been breached, or perhaps high humidity in the
bag may cause this? Do people who are regularly immersed in water and who
don't use a waterproof bag find the Icom 72 stands up to the immersion OK
over time?

When I'm rolling or doing rescue exercise where I'm clambering over the deck
I put the VHF in the day hatch. Otherwise I carry it on my PFD.

One of the nicest features of the Icom 72 is its ease of use - essential
when you really need the VHF.

All the best, PeterO
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From: James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 19:56:22 -0400
On May 19, 2010, at 2:01 PM, skimmer wrote:

> It is pretty easy these days to get boaters to carry cell phones, even
> though their use is discouraged by authorities. Who has experience with
> waterproof cell phones?

I carry a Casio waterproof phone. I have dunked it many times usually by forgetting it was in my pocket and wading in too deep. A quick rinse at home keeps it clean.  Coverage for my style of kayaking in my area is very good. 

A friend who is a regular on the Everglades Challenge circuit really likes his SPOT 2 but always carries a waterproof phone, EPIRB and the SPOT 2. He sometimes carries a VHF locally.  He prefers a self inflating PFD. He doesn't roll much. Like ever.

Jim et al
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From: Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:29:27 +0000
Chuck Sutherland asked: What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for
carrying on your PFD? If you carry it other than on your PFD, what is your
system and choice of radios?
    I carry a vintage -- now discontinued -- Standard HX350S -- so old it was
made in Japan!  Imagine that.  The rechargeable battery eventually went out,
and was by then discontinued, as well, but the radio came with a second
battery housing that accepted six AA alcaline batteries.  That, along with the
durability of the unit, has made it most valuable.  I have experienced slight
leakage at the seam between the radio body and the battery pod, but a tight
turn of black electrical tape puts a solid seal on the assembly.  An excellent
radio -- all the bells'n'whistles of its day.  For a while, I also used the
accessory mic/speaker widget that plugged into the HX350S -- very handy in
that it kept the speaker up next to your ear -- but less rugged than the
radio.  ("Designed in Japan.  Made in China.")  It's now at best intermittent,
and has returned to the land of the lost radios drawer.

It is pretty easy these days to get boaters to carry cell phones, even though
their use is discouraged by authorities. Who has experience with waterproof
cell phones?
     Like Jim, I carry a Casio "G'zOne" cell phone.  Ugly, utilitarian, and
waterproof -- one meter for 30 minutes -- with limited camera capabilities but
a nice little flashlight feature -- part of the camera flash.  I have an older
version of the G'zOne -- the "S" model -- and there are newer versions with
better features that are slightly less ugly.  It's also incredibly tough, and
has survived many falls to the pavement with little damage and no loss in
capability.

Jack Martin
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:54:46 -0700
My submersible VHF is an oldie also:  ICOM M-88.  Had it (and the one 
before it, which went for an unauthorized swim) for years.  Like Craig, I 
like ICOM for its reliability and bombproof construction.  Unlike some of 
the others discussed here, the "optional" mike connections are buried under 
a well-sealed panel.  No wanky audio jacks covered with a little rubber 
grommet or crap like that for unauthorized water entry.

This one lives in a PFD pocket, lanyarded to the PFD (its predecessor did 
not have the lanyard!).  It has a high-capacity Li-ion battery, way 
superior to any Ni-Cad, giving several days of use before you need to worry 
about a recharge.  I think Li-ion power is the only way to fly in these babies.

Best thing is:  no freaking radio bag!!!!  I can one-hand it with ease and 
the buttons work well for me.

I want a VHF to be reliable.  This one is.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Holmes <holmes375_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 19:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>

> To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>
> Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 7:54:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
> 
> My submersible VHF is an oldie also:  ICOM M-88.  Had it (and the one 
> before it, which went for an unauthorized swim) for years.  Like Craig, I 
> like ICOM for its reliability and bombproof construction.  Unlike some of 
> the others discussed here, the "optional" mike connections are buried under a 
> well-sealed panel.  No wanky audio jacks covered with a little rubber 
> grommet or crap like that for unauthorized water entry.

This one lives in 
> a PFD pocket, lanyarded to the PFD (its predecessor did not have the 
> lanyard!).  It has a high-capacity Li-ion battery, way superior to any 
> Ni-Cad, giving several days of use before you need to worry about a 
> recharge.  I think Li-ion power is the only way to fly in these 
> babies.

Best thing is:  no freaking radio bag!!!!  I can 
> one-hand it with ease and the buttons work well for me.

I want a VHF to 
> be reliable.  This one is.


Agree wholeheartedly re: M-88.  Mine is several years old now and still performs like a champ.  Love that battery :)

Dave, how do you have the lanyard attached to your M-88?

Regards,
~Holmes
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:50:12 -0700
Holmes wrote:

> Dave, how do you have the lanyard attached to your M-88?

Mine came with a purpose-built lanyard dealie that loops into a small 
pass-through slot at the base of the antenna.  I put a halyard clip on 
that.  It is pretty short, but long enough for me to get the unit to my 
ears and mouth.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: <seakayakerjb_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 23:35:20 -0400
 A year ago I had to retire my faithful (for 10 years!) Standard 350S--the
battery would no longer hold a charge and I couldn't detach the battery to
attach the (never used) alkaline battery pack.  I always carried it in my PFD
pocket, never in a waterproof bag, and was never disappointed in its
performance, even in sub-zero temperatures (yes, I paddle in sub-zero temps).
(I still have it and if anyone can tell me how to remove the seemingly welded
on battery pack please, I'm listening!)

I now have an ICOM M-72.  Love it!!!  for reasons previously mentioned.  But
tops on my like list are the over all size (fits very nicely in my hand, and
pfd pocket, and the single knob on top for on-off and volume control.  I was
always confusing the two knobs on the 350S, especially with gloved hands.  I
do wish there was an alkaline battery pack available for the M-72, but since I
never used the other one in 10 years, would I use it?  Don't know, but I'd
like one for the time that I did need it.

Most of my paddling is on the Great Lakes (Michigan and Superior), and there's
plenty of traffic to communicate with.  A cell phone on the water--as someone
else mentioned, to have pizza waiting at the takeout.  Coverage is often
spotty in remote locations any way, so I don't consider it reliable.  On the
smaller inland lakes, sure I put the cell in a waterproof case and toss it in
my day hatch, as well as I do on longer trips.  But, I turn it off first so it
doesn't go into "roam" mode and drain the battery, making it useless when
needed.

John Browning
Milwaukee, Wisconsin









-----Original Message-----
From: skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net>
To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; 'Craig Jungers' <crjungers_at_gmail.com>;
douglloyd_at_shaw.ca; 'Greg Welker' <gdwelker_at_verizon.net>; 'Greg Welker'
<gdwelker_at_verizon.net>; 'Scott Hilliard' <kiayker_at_sbcglobal.net>
Cc: 'Jackie Myers' <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>; 'Nick Schade'
<nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>; 'Martin, Jack' <martin.jack_at_solute.us>
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 1:01 pm
Subject: [Paddlewise] VHF


What waterproof VHF radio do you like best for carrying on your PFD? If you
carry it other than on your PFD, what is your system and choice of radios?



What general discussion do you have regarding VHF radios?



It is pretty easy these days to get boaters to carry cell phones, even
though their use is discouraged by authorities. Who has experience with
waterproof cell phones?



At least some parts of the Pacific Coast have a specific system for cell
phone calls by marine traffic. What is that?



On inland waters, lakes, rivers etc, are cell phones or VHF radios equally
effective?



Thanks,

Chuck Sutherland
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From: Paul Hayward <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] VHF
Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 01:17:09 +1200
> What waterproof VHF radio do you like best .. what is your system

Chuck, I've been very happy with my trusty Standard Horizon HX460S, which is
now 9 years old and has a lot of miles behind it. It has always gone to sea
in an Aquapac. When I bought it, I admired the thinking that surf or rolling
might overwhelm the waterproofing seals, especially as they aged. YMMV, but
it has kept on working for me.

I use the Aquapac lanyard, looped through itself round the PFD shoulder
strap. Can't hand the radio off to anyone else (unless rafted alongside) -
but I've never really wanted to. I've worn out 3 of the Aquapac cases, but
the latest is a much softer vinyl and seems to be holding up very much
better.

I (personally) deplore the move by most manufacturers to 'floating' VHFs, as
I believe it makes the units less useful to kayakers. As a kayaker, I can't
conceive of _not_ securely tying the VHF onto me (while on the water ;-), so
I reckon that if I'm afloat, the radio will also be. 

Making any design of VHF 'float' always involves both making it bigger
and/or reducing the battery capacity. Simple Avogadro's Rule. Neither of
which is desirable in any way for kayak use. 

I heartily agree with the Lithium battery. I eventually bought a replacement
battery (just before a 10-day coastal trip a couple of years back), but my
old one still holds a charge and is used as a backup. I get about 15+ hours
- enough for a weekend.

One thing I like about the SH is the antenna on the left - silly, but my
right ear is better and I use the VHF on that side - so the antenna doesn't
poke me in the eye ;-)

I used to keep the VHF in my PFD's belly pouch, but I finally got smart and
shifted it up nearer to the good ear by attaching it to the front of the PFD
shoulder strap. Best thing ever. I certainly achieved improved hearing -
especially in strong wind and at a lower volume as well (which is less
offensive in a group). The big surprise was the improvement in  antenna
performance at just double the distance above the water (and just peeking
over my shoulder). This is tested often, as my partner still has her
identical SH in a belly pocket. As we paddle along, I get 25% more
traffic...

To hold the VHF where I wanted it, I simply sewed up a fabric (cordura)
'holster' with a mesh front and a side flap/cover using Velcro. One-handed,
I can rip the flap open, grab the radio, adjust the controls, transmit,
stuff it back in the holster and secure the flap. If I drop it, the lanyard
saves the day. I'm sure there are alternatives - one of my paddling buddies
does something similar without a holster - or needing to move the radio off
the strap to transmit - he's better at talking out of the side of his mouth
than I am ;-) 
	
Best Regards
Paul Hayward, New Zealand
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