RE: [Paddlewise] bracing and power

I also think their has been some confusion as to the Euro or GP paddles and I
tried to address that and say I was talking about Euro paddles and didn't have
a lot of rough water experience with GP paddles (but enough to know that they
are not good for a quick slap brace but must be gotten underwater before
bracing is effective with them). However, I think Craig is confused here as to
what kind of paddles Chuck has that are 8.5 and 9 feet long. I sold Chuck the
extra long custom Lightning (Euro) paddle that was 9 feet long. I believe I
also recently read that Chuck wrote that the 8.5 foot paddle was a Werner (I
think Kalliste or something like that). If I have that correct ,this is also a
Euro paddle. So I think I have not been confusing Euro and Greenland Paddles
here at all. Chuck can straighten me out if I'm wrong about this.

Contrary to what Craig wrote, I think Chuck IS advocating a long paddle for
rough water and places like Deception Pass. Again, I hope Chuck clears this up
for us.

While I suspect many of the same problems and benefits of paddle length also
apply to Greenland paddles of different lengths, the baseline of where the
ideal length is for any given person likely differs from that of a Euro
paddle.

As Craig wrote, the windage will certainly be less on a GP than a Euro, but
compared to a lightweight Euro paddle, I'll bet the GP has as much or more
mass out in the last couple of feet as the Euro does (opposed to what Craig
wrote), unless maybe we are weighing the tip on a finely pointed True North
Quill rather than most GP paddles (BTW, Joel M., thanks for filling in my
memory on the Vancouver, BC paddle company name with "North' in it).  If two
paddles weight the same (and other things are equal) I prefer the one with the
light blades and the heavier shaft. Less weight to lift as high and I can move
the blade quicker for bracing or getting the blade into the water again for
the next stroke.

The less athletic sunny day paddler Craig clams will not be hurt by the long
paddle is the one that I think could be helped most by the lower gear provided
by the shorter paddle and the less windage they would have to try to control
the paddle against if the wind does come up. If anyone could deal with a
longer (higher gear) paddle it would be the sprint racers, but I think you
will find they are using paddles in the 215cm range.



One of the disadvantages of going too short is that a fast paddler may find
the stroke rate is too high to easily maintain coordination for the long haul.
That is not an issue for the slow and easy paddler though. The other main
restriction on going shorter is reaching the water over the side of the kayak
and easily and comfortably being able to completely bury the blade to avoid
the grip loss caused by ventilation of air from the surface to the lower
pressure area behind the blade. Short blades make this easier with a wide
blade Euro paddle, so I find it is the shaft length that is between the blades
that sets the lower length limit for reaching the water over any given boat
with any given paddler. Paddler arm length and back length (as well as boat,
width depth, draft and seat height) are all variables here that might allow a
shorter paddle or require a little longer one.



I advocate trying shorter paddles and paddling hard  for a bit to see if any
one of these negatives might have been encountered and going just long enough
of a paddle that these possible negatives (and any others you may encounter)
are not an issue for you. (Note try this in all the kayaks you plan to use it
in--double kayak paddlers need to go longer so the stern paddler can reach
over the boat, but if the weaker paddler in a pair is in the bow, the bow
paddler can go with a slight bit shorter paddle--maybe 5 or even 10 cm than
the stern paddler--to keep the same stroke rate but not have to paddle as
hard). Other than that, and having to be a little more careful not to get an
air stroke in clapotis conditions, I see only advantages to using a shorter
paddle and having less strain on your muscles and joints for maintaining any
given speed, better quickness of repeat stokes and for bracing, less of a
turning moment wasting energy with each stroke (or having the paddle blade
closer to the surface--to be able to quickly withdraw the blade if needed),
paddling in tight places, paddling closer to another paddler, a lighter paddle
for the same materials used, less lever arm handed to the wind to fight
against, the ability to accelerate quicker to take advantage of surfing
following seas or sprinting out through surf (and other times when quick
acceleration and a short sprint are an advantage, such as catching that faster
paddler as he goes by to ride on his wake and recycle some of that energy he
put into the water).








Craig wrote:

>>>>>>Many of the arguments against the *LONG* paddle are somewhat off the
mark and been lost n the noise of "Euro versus GP". Remember that he's not
using a *LONG* Euro paddle of 9' but a GP of 9' (unless I've totally
misunderstood his argument). A GP of 9' will have substantially less mass (and
windage) at the end of that long lever arm than a Euro will and so be
correspondingly quicker to use. And, if made with the appropriate materials,
still fairly light. My GP, carved from a single cedar 2x4,  is as long as my
ultra-light Lightning and almost as light... certainly much lighter than my
w/w Werner paddles.

I'm guessing that not many of us here have tried a 9-foot long GP and that all
our bad memories of longer Euro paddles might not be as relevant to the actual
debate as we think. Also, I don't think Chuck is advocating a switch to a long
paddle for playboating in Deception Pass (for instance) where a paddler needs
to be able to deftly and quickly change strokes to stay upright in the
conditions. Rob's "dynamic paddling" in rough water is right on... and I'm
pretty sure a *LONG* paddle wouldn't be appropriate. Of course, who is to say
we all only use one type of paddle?

I think Chuck's mostly saying that for longer trips we might want to consider
the *LONG* GP paddle as an alternative to a shorter paddle and that it's still
perfectly usable if the conditions deteriorate. You won't want to playboat
with one but it won't kill you any quicker than a EP if the wind rises.
Assuming you've spent some time planning your trip properly and used good
weather judgment.

Matt and Robb would probably not make a good candidate for a *LONG* paddle.
But lots of paddlers just go from point "A" to point "B" in fine weather and I
think that, for them, it would be worth a look.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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