My wife father, Richard J. Vogel, was a paddler. He paddled from New York City to Albany, NY three times. I said the other day that I use a 9 ft paddle routinely and sometimes an 8.5 ft with a slightly larger blade. I am right handed, but paddle left hand control. My Iliad was 200 cm, had a big blade, good for rolling and WAS NOT the clunker described by Matt. I use it still with my white water boat. It seems indestructible. Mr. Vogel used an 8 ft 7 inch paddle, left hand control, 90 degree offset, and he was right handed. He paddled a wooden canoe, the Peterborough Cruiser, that was 16 ft long and 30 inches wide amidships. He sat on a small box seat, 3-4 inches high, on the floor of the boat, legs out stretched on the floor of the boat, heals together and knees apart, a power position for power paddling with a paddle permitting maximum torso rotation power. He was about 5ft 10 inches tall. We have the boat in our boat shed. On October 15-17, 1921, Mr. Vogel, at age 28, set the record at that time for paddling up the Hudson river from NY to Albany, 110 miles, in 36 hours, 45 minutes. If there had been a deck over the boat, except for the cockpit, we would call it a kayak today. There was no rudder. He carried food, water and perhaps a blanket with him. Ain't it just a shame that he had to use such an inefficient paddle! Or maybe he knew something about how to use it. Please consider this my "REPORT BACK" on the use of long paddles. Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck wrote: >>>>>>My wife father, Richard J. Vogel, was a paddler. He paddled from New York City to Albany, NY three times. I said the other day that I use a 9 ft paddle routinely and sometimes an 8.5 ft with a slightly larger blade. I am right handed, but paddle left hand control. My Iliad was 200 cm, had a big blade, good for rolling and WAS NOT the clunker described by Matt. I use it still with my white water boat. It seems indestructible.<<<<<<< Most good paddlers paddle opposite their handedness. A paddling school (Sun River or somethng like that) in the 1980's (as reported by Canoe magazine at the time in a short blub) ran an experiment where they started half the class opposite there handedness and half feathered the same as their handedness. Those opposites learned quicker, stayed with kayaking longer and once they learned to roll on one side could then roll on the other. The same handed and feathered paddlers didn't take as long to learn on the second side but had to go through the learning progression again to learn to roll on the opposite side. It sounds like the same huge blade Iliad to me. Well made, big blade, heavy, and indestructable. Did your Iliad have a rubber covered shaft too? I think the later ones may have had a fiberglass shaft covering. I'll bet it is essentially the same paddle but to me, having become used a lightweight short little paddle, with much more reasonable sized blades feels the Iliad is clunky by comparison and Chuck used to using a long awkward heavier paddle all the time just doesn't notice much of a difference when going back to that clunky old Iliad. >>>>>>>>Mr. Vogel used an 8 ft 7 inch paddle, left hand control, 90 degree offset, and he was right handed. He paddled a wooden canoe, the Peterborough Cruiser, that was 16 ft long and 30 inches wide amidships. He sat on a small box seat, 3-4 inches high, on the floor of the boat, legs out stretched on the floor of the boat, heals together and knees apart, a power position for power paddling with a paddle permitting maximum torso rotation power. He was about 5ft 10 inches tall. We have the boat in our boat shed. On October 15-17, 1921, Mr. Vogel, at age 28, set the record at that time for paddling up the Hudson river from NY to Albany, 110 miles, in 36 hours, 45 minutes. If there had been a deck over the boat, except for the cockpit, we would call it a kayak today. There was no rudder. He carried food, water and perhaps a blanket with him. Ain't it just a shame that he had to use such an inefficient paddle! Or maybe he knew something about how to use it. Please consider this my "REPORT BACK" on the use of long paddles.<<<<<<<<< I think your father-in-law's paddle was very appropiate for the boat he was using. It would have been very awkward for him to use a shorter paddle over a 30" wide canoe from a high seating position in the center of the canoe. He needed a paddle that long just to easily reach over the gunnels and bury the blade in the water. That length paddle was necessary using that canoe just like longer paddles are necessesary for paddling in the stern of a double kayak (and forcing the bow paddler to use a paddle nearly as long to maintain a comparable stroke rate). So he probably used the best length he could given the boat he had because he couldn't reasonably go to any shorter paddle. If longer is better why not go with an 18 foot long paddle? What limits are there to making and using a longer paddle if longer is better? How about a 100 foot long paddle? Can we agree that there is an optimal length for any given paddler and kayak? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:42 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>wrote: > What limits are there > to making and using a longer paddle if longer is better? How about a 100 > foot > long paddle? Can we agree that there is an optimal length for any given > paddler and kayak? > I think that any "optimal" length would also have to include variations for use and not just paddler and kayak. A paddle for surfing would not be the same as a paddle for sprinting or a paddle for covering long distances efficiently and effectively. What happens if we are able to produce a zero mass paddle? How does this affect our ideas about how long a paddle "should" be? Well I can think of a couple simple ways just off hand. Even at zero mass a very long paddle would not be suitable for surfing or white water because of the greater chances for contacting the bottom, rocks, trees, etc. and the necessity to keep the paddle blades clear of higher nearby waves. But it might be entirely different for a paddler trying to simply cover distance. With zero mass it seems to me that the single most important limiting factor would be the paddler's ability to overcome the water resistance multiplied by the length of the lever arm. A strong paddler with slow-twitch muscle structure would be far more likely to find a very long paddle useful. But I bet it would annoy the crap out of someone with fast-twitch muscles. As someone here said a few posts back, we seem to be approaching zero mass paddles with the new technologies; and the mass at the end of the stick is the most important part. With the right paddle blades, the right mass, and the right type of muscles I can't see why a very long paddle might not prove to be a good idea for some paddlers desiring to cover ground quickly. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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