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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com> subject: [Paddlewise] Re: [Paddlewise] racing with a long paddleþ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:11:03 -0700 · This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:53 PDT

I, MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com> wrote:

What limits are there
to making and using a longer paddle if longer is better? How about a 100 foot
long paddle? Can we agree that there is an optimal length for any given
paddler and kayak?

Craig Jungers wrote back:

>>>>>>>I think that any "optimal" length would also have to include variations for use and not just paddler and kayak. A paddle for surfing would not be the same as a paddle for sprinting or a paddle for covering long distances efficiently and effectively.<<<<<<

Of course! I should have specified I was talking about paddling on a flat wide open waterway with no waves, current of eddies, or rocks or telephone poles or anything else that might get in a long paddles way. I meant nothing would be involved but the paddles length for a given paddler on the basis of going straight ahead in the most efficient manner.

Craig Jungers wrote:

>>>>>>What happens if we are able to produce a zero mass paddle? 

How does this affect our ideas about how long a paddle "should" be? Well I can think of a couple simple ways just off hand.

Even at zero mass a very long paddle would not be suitable for surfing or white water because of the greater chances for contacting the bottom, rocks, trees, etc. and the necessity to keep the paddle blades clear of higher nearby waves.

But it might be entirely different for a paddler trying to simply cover distance. With zero mass it seems to me that the single most important limiting factor would be the paddler's ability to overcome the water resistance multiplied by the length of the lever arm. A strong paddler with slow-twitch muscle structure would be far more likely to find a very long paddle useful.

But I bet it would annoy the crap out of someone with fast-twitch muscles.

As someone here said a few posts back, we seem to be approaching zero mass paddles with the new technologies; and the mass at the end of the stick is the most important part. With the right paddle blades, the right mass, and the right type of muscles I can't see why a very long paddle might not prove to be a good idea for some paddlers desiring to cover ground quickly.<<<<<<<<

Although unrealistic in the real world to go with the zero mass concept we could make the paddles both have the same swing weight if you would like. My point is that if you make the gear high enough even a powerful high torque engine is going to reach a point where it lugs down. Yes, some bikers do better in a little higher gear and some prefer to spin more. There are limits to the human bodies of everybody in both directions though. Too fast a spin and even the most coordinated fast twitch guy will lose it before long. Go to too high a gear and the body of even a slow twitcher will not be operating in an efficient manner as the load would be too great and sustained with little muscle movement all on the same side for just too long. 
Our task is to try to figure out what is optimal for ourselves and then try to see what is the most functional compromise given all the other considerations involved. Thinking in terms of gear ratio would be a good starting point. When we add a different kayak or condition that may favor making adjustments from the ideal flatwater length, we would move only as much as necessary in the direction that would vavor to work out the best compromises.

I'm not sure if I'm a fast or slow muscle twitcher. I have a very fast reaction time. You don't want to play "Red Hands" with me. I often catch things I drop accidentally, like my keys. Yet, I prefer a little higher gear than many when pedalling a bike. I also did better in longer kayak races than in sprints. Chuck thinks I paddle with a relatively short paddle and Doug thinks the same paddle is now considered long. Really long paddles annoy the crap out of me. To each his own. Derek hutchinson said he likes heavy paddles. He said they give "momentum" to his stroke. I'm for trying that zero mass paddle you are talking about. Like Chuck, I'll be taking a few days break from Paddlewise, starting right now, so maybe with both of us gone, Craig will lose interest and everyone else can find a knew topic to be passionate about.
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