I did my usual weekend paddle this morning. We headed out of water street in beverly mass. The wind was blowing from the south west so we headed up the coast, straight downwind, to Misery Island. One of the guys is new this season. He was a flatwater kayak racer, but we've been introducing him to the "pleasures" of open water paddling. Surf ski's are great fun in downwind conditions, and today we had them. I'm not good at wind speed estimates - regular whitecaps with some blow off of the tops of the foam. Periodic whistling sounds from the adjustment ferrule on the paddle shaft. As we left the harbor a passing motor boater commented we might not want to go too far as the return trip, into the wind, would be a chore. Jim suggested we go to hospital point and sample the head wind with a short return trip. Mike wanted to do a straight downwind run to Misery Island (he had done a 15 mile "island tour" the day before with stronger winds). We compromised and headed for black rock by Endicott college. The "new guy" went over just past hospital point and quickly remounted. A couple hundred yards short of black rock he went in again. This time there was a problem. His 25 pound boat got parallel to the wind and waves, then started to tumble along the surface. He swam after the boat but it was tumbling faster than he could swim (with his pfd on). The wind was strong enough that the boat would occasionally end up airborn as it tumbled over the waves. I paddled over and got on the upwind side of his tumbling boat, but his boat is tall, and mine is short, so that didn't have any effect, the boat took a couple more tumbles. At that point I saw a family lobster boat headed our way ( basically an open whaler with a hoist on the side). The boat was headed straight at the surf ski to stop it's tumbling. I yelled to them to be careful, if they hit the ski broadside it would split it in half. The "family" on the double diamond (the name of the boat) did a fantastic job, 2 young men, one on each side of the bow, intercepted the tumbling ski and brought it alongside. The "new guy" swam up the the motor boat and climbed aboard. The boat owner asked if he wanted a ride to shore or if he wanted to return to his boat. He opted to return to his boat. On my recommendation they worked the surf ski around to the downwind side of the boat. The "new guy" climbed into his ski. The boat driver asked about giving him a rope to tie him to the boat ( the paddle/boat leash which was the missing - but critical piece of equipment ). I asked if they had about 5 feet of rope. He said he didn't have anything that long, and proceeded to take a 15 foot section of rope from one of his bumpers. The new guy lashed one end of the rope to his vest, the other to one of the rudder lines. At this point the motor boat pulled away, and the new guy started his trip to shore to regroup. We were only 150 yards off shore so he was comfortable paddling into shore and getting readjusted. Two of the other guys returned to their downwind run, and to "find" Mike who opted for a solo run down the middle of the bay and had missed the whole swim/rescue. After a brief rest we headed back upwind. Twice on the way upwind we turned around and did a brief downwind run - just to enjoy a little bit of wave riding. So lessons learned. Remember, and use your paddle or ankle leash if you are paddling in winds strong enough to tumble your boat, if you exit. I need to figure out how to stop a tumbling boat, without damaging it... I've practiced towing a swimmer, with my surf ski, I knew we could get the swimmer to shore. The "new guy" wasn't concerned for his own safety, he could easily swim to shore from where he went in, he was primarily concerned about where his new boat was going to get blown ashore. Kirk -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That is an interesting predicament!! Mark On 9/5/2010 5:39 PM, Kirk Olsen wrote: > I did my usual weekend paddle this morning. We headed out of water > street in beverly mass. The wind was blowing from the south west so we > headed up the coast, straight downwind, to Misery Island. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:16 -0700, "Mark Sanders" <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net> wrote: > That is an interesting predicament!! > > On 9/5/2010 5:39 PM, Kirk Olsen wrote: > > The wind was blowing from the south west so we > > headed up the coast, straight downwind, to Misery Island. > > > > His boat got parallel to the wind and > > waves, then started to tumble along the surface. He swam after the boat > > but it was tumbling faster than he could swim (with his pfd on). The > > wind was strong enough that the boat would occasionally end up airborn > > as it tumbled over the waves. Alas interesting doesn't solve it... How would you stop a boat tumbling downwind... Stopping the tumbling boat with your hull will likely damage your boat and/or the boat which is tumbling. I don't paddle on the ocean with a throwbag, so that bit of potential equipment isn't avaailable. Making use of my tether, and jumping into the water downwind of his boat, and upwind of my boat could be an option. But I've been using a paddle leash and I don't like the odds of using only one hand stopping a tumbling boat. I really don't want to leave my boat though - that seems like its increasing the problem not decreasing it. The leash is also on the center of the boat so there's a good chance of one end of my boat being upwind of me as the tumbling boat arrives. One option that I've come up with is to paddle next to the end of the boat, and grab the rudder, or stern - but that sounds very difficult ( I would be working from a 17.5", 45 cm, beam boat). Maybe put a paddle face against one end of the tumbling boat and trying to rotate the tumbling boat to be perpendicular to the waves instead of parallel. Avoiding the situation is best, I would like to have a contingency plan for when things go wrong... Kirk -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kirk Olsen suggested: One option that I've come up with is to paddle next to the end of the boat, and grab the rudder, or stern - but that sounds very difficult ( I would be working from a 17.5", 45 cm, beam boat). Maybe put a paddle face against one end of the tumbling boat and trying to rotate the tumbling boat to be perpendicular to the waves instead of parallel. __________ Yes, that sounds very difficult: a slightly less dramatic option might be to clip a sea anchor on a short tether to the errant boat's bow fitting or line to bring the bow up into the wind and stop the window shade effect. That said, how many of us carry a sea anchor readily accessible on deck? (If I were doing that kind of paddling, I guess I might -- but I'm not -- and I don't.) Would need a quick hand and a gutsy paddler. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us> wrote: > Kirk Olsen suggested: > > One option that I've come up with is to paddle next to the end of the boat, > and grab the rudder, or stern - but that sounds very difficult ( I would be > working from a 17.5", 45 cm, beam boat). Maybe put a paddle face against > one end of the tumbling boat and trying to rotate the tumbling boat to be > perpendicular to the waves instead of parallel. > > __________ > > Yes, that sounds very difficult: a slightly less dramatic option might be > to clip a sea anchor on a short tether to the errant boat's bow fitting or > line to bring the bow up into the wind and stop the window shade effect. > That said, how many of us carry a sea anchor readily accessible on deck? > (If I were doing that kind of paddling, I guess I might -- but I'm not -- > and I don't.) Would need a quick hand and a gutsy paddler. > "Quick" being the operative word here, I think. I've been pondering this question this morning and thinking that it's not just surf skis that could have the problem. A few months back Pam bought an Illusion from Sterling in Bellingham that only weighs about 30 lbs in his superlight layup option. And SOF boats commonly weigh in at under 30lbs. Combine this light weight with something that keeps the cockpit from flooding (like a sea sock) and you could experience this phenomenon in your decked kayak too. The problem with putting a paddle face against a tumbling boat is that Newton's 3rd law of motion is likely to come into play and create the same situation for the would-be rescuer. My imagination conjured up some sort of restraint you could toss over the tumbling kayak... something to create drag. But just a throw line wouldn't be enough... it would have to be something that would entangle itself on the smooth hull of the kayak. But Kirk doesn't even carry a throw line; let alone a throw "net". Absent some sort of "gear" the only other option would be to quickly - and very quickly - get downwind and just block the tumbling boat with all the risks that brings into the equation. Is this a common situation? Maybe some sort of bag that would fill with water in a capsize (but be easy to manually empty) to weigh the boat down a bit and add drag. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us> wrote: > Kirk Olsen suggested: > > One option that I've come up with is to paddle next to the end of the boat, > and grab the rudder, or stern - but that sounds very difficult ( I would be > working from a 17.5", 45 cm, beam boat). Maybe put a paddle face against > one end of the tumbling boat and trying to rotate the tumbling boat to be > perpendicular to the waves instead of parallel. > > __________ > > Yes, that sounds very difficult: a slightly less dramatic option might be > to clip a sea anchor on a short tether to the errant boat's bow fitting or > line to bring the bow up into the wind and stop the window shade effect. > That said, how many of us carry a sea anchor readily accessible on deck? > (If I were doing that kind of paddling, I guess I might -- but I'm not -- > and I don't.) Would need a quick hand and a gutsy paddler. > "Quick" being the operative word here, I think. I've been pondering this question this morning and thinking that it's not just surf skis that could have the problem. A few months back Pam bought an Illusion from Sterling in Bellingham that only weighs about 30 lbs in his superlight layup option. And SOF boats commonly weigh in at under 30lbs. Combine this light weight with something that keeps the cockpit from flooding (like a sea sock) and you could experience this phenomenon in your decked kayak too. The problem with putting a paddle face against a tumbling boat is that Newton's 3rd law of motion is likely to come into play and create the same situation for the would-be rescuer. My imagination conjured up some sort of restraint you could toss over the tumbling kayak... something to create drag. But just a throw line wouldn't be enough... it would have to be something that would entangle itself on the smooth hull of the kayak. But Kirk doesn't even carry a throw line; let alone a throw "net". Absent some sort of "gear" the only other option would be to quickly - and very quickly - get downwind and just block the tumbling boat with all the risks that brings into the equation. Is this a common situation? Maybe some sort of bag that would fill with water in a capsize (but be easy to manually empty) to weigh the boat down a bit and add drag. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Kirk Olsen wrote: > How would you stop a boat tumbling downwind... > Stopping the tumbling boat with your hull will likely > damage your boat and/or the boat which > is tumbling. > I don't paddle on the ocean with a throwbag, so that > bit of potential equipment isn't available. > Maybe it's time to start carrying a small throwbag? Perhaps a custom-built one with parachute cord in it to keep size/weight at a minimum? Tossing it over the boat from upwind may either slow the boat, or - with sufficient slack - allow the boat to roll over the rope, allowing someone to grab the other end? Or maybe with a small drogue on the thrown end? Many years ago I built such a custom throwbag for whitewater use - to allow for ferrying rescue ropes across a wide river for a tag/zip line. After a number of years of never needing it, the small bag - about the size of a large grapefruit - was deleted from my paddling kit. Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've had 2 opportunities to use a throw bag/tow line this year. An ultra small throw bag/storage bag with cord, might fit the bill... The previous use would have been to pull a sailboat off of the rocks... On my surf ski I'm a minimalist paddler. If it's not attached to my pfd I don't have it... On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:27 -0700, "Erik S" <laivotais_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > Kirk Olsen wrote: > How would you stop a boat tumbling downwind... > Stopping the tumbling boat with your hull will likely > damage your boat and/or the boat which > is tumbling. > I don't paddle on the ocean with a throwbag, so that > bit of potential equipment isn't available. > Maybe it's time to start carrying a small throwbag? Perhaps a custom-built one with parachute cord in it to keep size/weight at a minimum? Tossing it over the boat from upwind may either slow the boat, or - with sufficient slack - allow the boat to roll over the rope, allowing someone to grab the other end? Or maybe with a small drogue on the thrown end? Many years ago I built such a custom throwbag for whitewater use - to allow for ferrying rescue ropes across a wide river for a tag/zip line. After a number of years of never needing it, the small bag - about the size of a large grapefruit - was deleted from my paddling kit. Erik Sprenne -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My vest-style PFD has a tow line at the small of my back made to break under too great a load, a throw bag (actually a flat satchel that sits between my shoulders), and of course a knife for when it all goes wrong with the lines. With my belt inflatable PFD, I attach the bag to the boat. Throw bags and tow lines have come in so very hand on so very many occasions, that I prefer to bring them along despite their being a slight embuggerance when padding ultra light in a sprint boat. Richard Culpeper -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Olsen On my surf ski I'm a minimalist paddler. If it's not attached to my pfd I don't have it... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Is the satchel throwbag and the lower towline something you built or bought? I've been contemplating a collapsible "frisbee" with a drawstring rim as a potential throwbag - this idea is only an hour or so old, no proof of concept yet... Kirk On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:32 -0400, "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> wrote: > My vest-style PFD has a tow line at the small of my back made to break > under > too great a load, a throw bag (actually a flat satchel that sits between > my > shoulders), and of course a knife for when it all goes wrong with the > lines. > > With my belt inflatable PFD, I attach the bag to the boat. > > Throw bags and tow lines have come in so very hand on so very many > occasions, that I prefer to bring them along despite their being a slight > embuggerance when padding ultra light in a sprint boat. -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bought -- integrated with the PFD. I tried a frizbee and parachute cord -- didn't work, so I painted it as a pizza and used it to lure my crew out of holes when they were hogging. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Kirk Olsen Sent: September-08-10 8:26 AM To: Richard Culpeper; 'Paddlewise' Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A reminder to use the right gear ( or thanks for the rescue). Is the satchel throwbag and the lower towline something you built or bought? I've been contemplating a collapsible "frisbee" with a drawstring rim as a potential throwbag - this idea is only an hour or so old, no proof of concept yet... Kirk On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:32 -0400, "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> wrote: > My vest-style PFD has a tow line at the small of my back made to break > under > too great a load, a throw bag (actually a flat satchel that sits between > my > shoulders), and of course a knife for when it all goes wrong with the > lines. > > With my belt inflatable PFD, I attach the bag to the boat. > > Throw bags and tow lines have come in so very hand on so very many > occasions, that I prefer to bring them along despite their being a slight > embuggerance when padding ultra light in a sprint boat. -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It doesn't have to be a lightweight kayak to blow away faster than you can swim. When the wind is strong most kayaks will blow away faster than you can swim. Some solo paddlers fasten themselves to the kayak with a long line when it gets windy. That was one function of our stern towline set-up that clipped to the bowline in front of the cockpit so there was plenty of slack if you clipped it to your PFD. With any line, you'd want to make sure you could release quickly from it and that it wouldn't be able to trap you in the cockpit. I teather my paddle to the kayak so it is easier to keep the kayak (or paddle) from getting away from you. All it takes is to release your hold on the kayak for an instant to find it blown out of your reach and moving away faster than your can swim. A pre-rigged sea anchor that could be easily deployed and retrieved might be better in breakers (where holding on to the kayak or being tied to it is very risky). However, most places there is surf, your kayak will probably get to shore before you do. It is when you are further from shore that not losing hold of your kayak is critical. Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 09:01:58 -0700 From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> Subject: Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us> wrote: > Kirk Olsen suggested: > > One option that I've come up with is to paddle next to the end of the boat, > and grab the rudder, or stern - but that sounds very difficult ( I would be > working from a 17.5", 45 cm, beam boat). Maybe put a paddle face against > one end of the tumbling boat and trying to rotate the tumbling boat to be > perpendicular to the waves instead of parallel. > > __________ > > Yes, that sounds very difficult: a slightly less dramatic option might be > to clip a sea anchor on a short tether to the errant boat's bow fitting or > line to bring the bow up into the wind and stop the window shade effect. > That said, how many of us carry a sea anchor readily accessible on deck? > (If I were doing that kind of paddling, I guess I might -- but I'm not -- > and I don't.) Would need a quick hand and a gutsy paddler. > "Quick" being the operative word here, I think. I've been pondering this question this morning and thinking that it's not just surf skis that could have the problem. A few months back Pam bought an Illusion from Sterling in Bellingham that only weighs about 30 lbs in his superlight layup option. And SOF boats commonly weigh in at under 30lbs. Combine this light weight with something that keeps the cockpit from flooding (like a sea sock) and you could experience this phenomenon in your decked kayak too. The problem with putting a paddle face against a tumbling boat is that Newton's 3rd law of motion is likely to come into play and create the same situation for the would-be rescuer. My imagination conjured up some sort of restraint you could toss over the tumbling kayak... something to create drag. But just a throw line wouldn't be enough... it would have to be something that would entangle itself on the smooth hull of the kayak. But Kirk doesn't even carry a throw line; let alone a throw "net". Absent some sort of "gear" the only other option would be to quickly - and very quickly - get downwind and just block the tumbling boat with all the risks that brings into the equation. Is this a common situation? Maybe some sort of bag that would fill with water in a capsize (but be easy to manually empty) to weigh the boat down a bit and add drag. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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