PaddleWise by thread

From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 16:54:28 -0700
  Tomorrow night, there's a fitness paddle, but you know what??? I don't 
wanna paddle for "fitness"! I have connections to some of the best kayak 
instructors in the world, but you know what? I don't wanna "learn"!! I'm 
sick of all these activities that are supposed to get me "ready" to do 
what I really want to do--I want to kayak! Yeah, so if that makes me a 
Neanderhal, so be it. But if it will make you feel better, I'll qualify 
that I just don't want to "learn" on purpose! I'll be more than happy to 
learn by accident! I'll practice my rolls, but I don't want to work on 
my "butterfy"; I want to roll up along side rock and foam. I want to 
have an "Oh, S&_at_t" moment. I want to deal with a sucking reef on my 
beam. Everyone I know has stars-wants more, but I don't have any. Dublin 
Dave has the right idea--don't strive for stars, strive to be a Kayak 
One Percenter! Doug Lloyd is a 1%er! I don't know what my percent is, 
but it's too high! So don't come tell me how high you are in the BCU, I 
want to know what percent you're down to!

I haven't been on the water for three weeks!!!

Mark Sanders
www.sandmarks.net
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 18:17:01 -0700
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote:

> So don't come tell me how high you are in the BCU, I want to know what
> percent you're down to!
>

It's all part of our obsession with "credentials". I have no credentials. I
like to paddle but haven't done much since my knee surgery. But I've been
pedaling a LOT. No BBU (British Bicycle Union) to tell me how to get stars
in downhill, cross country, or free riding. No one to look down on me if I
don't "bunny hop" five different ways. Sure, there are arrogant mountain
bike riders but most people are just happy to get out for a few hours now
and then. No arguments over whether skills are more important than gear
either.

This weekend I'm celebrating my wife's birthday by going to a desert ranch
run by the BLM with tons of trails, a dry lake, free camping and sunshine.
My wife is going to visit her sister. LOL

I still love to kayak but I'm trying to diversify. No stars for me.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:56:40 +1100
G'Day Craig, Mark and all,

Re stars - they get horribly in the way of kayaking

We had some bad winds a few weeks ago. Cycling back from work and round a
corner came across a fallen tree. Braked suddenly and badly and flew over
the handlebars, like superman for a second or two and then came to an abrupt
halt pancaked on the tarmac. Saw plenty of stars and a sore shoulder.
Exhilarating to know I was still alive and able to walk

My mother in law says you ain't a proper cyclist until you see them stars!

But definitely agree, avoid them stars like the plague, they get in the way
of kayaking:~)

All the best, PeterO
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:27:53 -0700
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:56 PM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote:

>
> But definitely agree, avoid them stars like the plague, they get in the way
> of kayaking:~)
>

About 6 months ago I watched a group of neophyte kayakers paddling the local
lake and thought to myself that there must be a lot of paddlers who could
use some basic information. I didn't think they needed to learn to roll but
I thought that an introduction to some skills might make a lot of people
safer. Our local city park system offers low-cost courses in an eclectic
assortment of disciplines including basket weaving, pottery, drawing,
watercolors, roller blading and other similar activities and it seemed to me
that this might be a suitable venue.

A couple of things happened.  First, I discovered that the city parks board
wanted me to supply the kayaks. Now I do have an assortment of kayaks but
only one of them would be suitable for most paddlers (the Nimbus Telkwa).
Maybe the F-1 but I am reluctant to turn a SOF kayak over to just anyone.
And anyway, I was not thinking about instructing absolute newbies but people
who were already paddling and had their own (or access to) kayaks. Since
they already would have kayaks, my reasoning went, I would not have to
supply any. The Parks people were unconvinced by this logic.

The second thing that happened was that even though I'm a well-known kayaker
in this area (with stories in the newspapers, etc. )they wanted
"credentials". Thirty-odd years of paddling and ocean sports was not enough,
apparently. Nor were published articles about paddling. No credentials were
needed for the instruction of basket weaving, BMX cycling or roller-blading,
mind you. But for kayaking they wanted ACA certification or no deal. "It's a
matter of insurance," they told me.

Now at age 67 I am not going to go out and get ACA or BCU certification. For
one thing it would mean traveling to another area and spending considerable
money in housing and food not to mention the fees for the courses and
subsequent examinations. At any rate I ended up not doing anything with
Parks and, instead, got a new left knee (which pretty much took care of my
summer - such as it was around here this year).

This, to my mind, is the insidious problem with a credential-driven society.
This mind-set, combined with a propensity towards litigation along with a
decided disinterest in "risk" and added to the entry of commercial groups is
not going to do western culture much good; at least in my opinion. I know
that there is a great movement towards "stars" in the paddling community but
I firmly believe that it's mostly being driven by associations that seem to
be greatly motivated by economic interests. This is reinforced by the simple
fact that if you don't keep up your membership (e.g.: pay your money yearly)
your "stars" will no longer be recognized.

This issue has been visited often on Paddlewise and will, no doubt, be
visited again in the future and I know there are paddlers - including
several I respect - who believe in these credentials. And I have no quarrel
with a personal goal of earning "stars". But I remain convinced that
widespread adoption of these principles will increase the costs of entry for
new paddlers and will result in fewer kayakers not more entering the
industry. The barrier to entry for paddling is already extremely high given
the costs of equipment; add in the costs for instruction.

I realize the probably futility of this rant, of course, My own son-in-law
wants to buy a sailboat and told me he plans to go take lessons in sailing
and cruising from a "school" over in Seattle. Maybe he figures that my years
of sailing and cruising and career as a merchant marine officer aren't
appropriate to Lake Union. But then again, I don't own a "school" for
sailing.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 09:02:53 +1100
Craig wrote:
>About 6 months ago I watched a group of neophyte kayakers paddling the
local lake and 
>thought to myself that there must be a lot of paddlers who could use some
basic information...

G'day Craig and Paddlewise,

Have to confess my anecdote came from the same kind of stress as Marks. In
my case off the water for several weeks because I hadn't practised emergency
stop braking on a bicycle until it was second nature! Is practise always a
good thing? Some people practice a poor technique assiduously with no
improvement, just reinforcing bad habits. I've done this myself, but am
blessed with a lousy muscle memory so can readily make corrections provided
I practice lots, and occasionally with the help of a true expert. 

I'm ambivalent on this star thing. Grateful for those who strive after
perfection and can provide solid instruction, but of the opinion that
'stars' are a useful but not sufficient requirement for a good trainer.
Excellence is likely an individual attribute of the trainer/leader that can
be stifled by excessive bureaucracy, as you described! I never did get my
head around the fact that I was able to lead groups out to sea privately and
successfully, but getting a qualification brought with it a heap of
additional responsibilities and potential liabilities that inhibited such
trips. On the other hand how would a stranger know I can lead well enough to
trust coming with me? Anyway, handed in my sea leader qualification
voluntarily some years ago due to lack of time and declining strength.
What's more our younger club members are way more skilful than many of my
generation largely due to an excellent formal training scheme!

Craig did you ever get a chance to see the New York Boat house in action? An
incredible group of people who get large numbers of city workers out on the
Hudson river each year. I've no idea if the organisers are qualified. How
they do it so successfully is a mystery to me and an object lesson!

See what I mean about ambivalence!

All the best, PeterO
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 20:13:30 -0700
Well, I'm cleaning out barf buckets and learning to cook and buy groceries
in season and do dishes and housework and homework and also which loads of
laundry to do together. I'd rather be maytagged than stuff a Maytag or punch
through foam rather than plunk pots into a foamy sink - but such is life.
Our bodies give out. Our spouses get sick. We've been peeing, pooping,
breathing, and pumping blood for over 5 decades and things to wear out and
break and disintegrate - or whatever you want to cal it. My loving wife did
the domestics for decades while I did the other exciting stuff, way more
than was rightfully so, so now it's my turn with the mundane. I'm certainly
glad I got all that wild solo paddling in when I did  - when I had good
health and domestic bliss and a dutiful, beautiful wife (friend, partner,
lover) waiting for me back home. I think I'd be resentful if I had spent
those years working on getting kayak certificates. Some training is great -
even essential - especially if done under good tutelage, but my own
watertime doing what I want while being relatively safe isn't anything, as I
said, that I regret.

DL  

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Mark Sanders
<marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote:

> So don't come tell me how high you are in the BCU, I want to know what
> percent you're down to!
>

It's all part of our obsession with "credentials". I have no credentials. I
like to paddle but haven't done much since my knee surgery. But I've been
pedaling a LOT. No BBU (British Bicycle Union) to tell me how to get stars
in downhill, cross country, or free riding. No one to look down on me if I
don't "bunny hop" five different ways. Sure, there are arrogant mountain
bike riders but most people are just happy to get out for a few hours now
and then. No arguments over whether skills are more important than gear
either.

This weekend I'm celebrating my wife's birthday by going to a desert ranch
run by the BLM with tons of trails, a dry lake, free camping and sunshine.
My wife is going to visit her sister. LOL

I still love to kayak but I'm trying to diversify. No stars for me.

Craig Jungers
.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Paul Hayward <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A Case of Bad Attitude
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 23:03:10 +1300
Mark Sanders said:
>I haven't been on the water for three weeks!!!

It's showing, mate...

;-)

Best Regards
Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:54 PDT