A number of boating regulatory agencies seem reluctant to tell paddlers to dress to swim, test their gear etc. My State of PA tells cold water boaters that if they fall or capsize into cold water to put their hands over their mouth and nose to keep from gasping/inhaling cold water. No mention of how to swim back to the surface. National Safe Boating Council has instructed paddlers to wear manually inflatable life jackets (If you go over, pull the cord to activate the inflation system), no mention of getting the spray skirt off, pushing out of the boat, keeping a grip on the boat and on the paddle. So far that might require the simultaneous use of 4 to 6 hands, it seems to me-not counting the ones used to cover your nose and mouth and swim to the surface. Last year, the winner of the "Saved by the life jacket" essay contest, run by the National Safe Boating Council, awarded the prize to a fellow that capsized into 40 degree water (upper Mississippi River, March) to a fellow wearing a pfd, shorty wetsuit, and who had a cell phone in a water tight container. The fellow was able to call 911 for help and stay on the line, in control and lucid until a rescue squad arrived. He was not "Saved by the Life Jacket". He was saved by his life jacket, shorty wetsuit and his ability to call for help. NSBC refused to say that all three safety elements were essential for the young man's survival. To what extent does a float coat exclude water from around the torso? Who has tried such gear in cold water? Do most of you carry a VHF OR cell phone on your PFD or Boat when out on cold water? Are VHF radios effective/monitored on inland waters/lakes/rivers? Are there any states that overtly recommend what we understand as proper gear/training for open water paddlers? Name the State and their website! I believe that regulatory agencies have different objectives than we do. They count up the number of dead boaters at the end of the year and hope that there will be fewer recorded than the previous year. They are correct that if everyone wore PFDs on cold water, there would be fewer deaths. That however does not, in my view, justify telling boaters to just wear a pfd, and that they have one minute to get over the gasping, 10 minutes to call for help before cold paralysis eradicates their ability to help themselves, and 1 hour before they die from the cold. Our objective is different!! Our premise is that NO ONE SHOULD DIE from a swim in cold water. We therefore train boaters to do their own rescues, dress to swim, be able to remain functional in the water for a while if rescue is necessary and be able to call for assistance. It is NOT-Just wear a PFD!!! WE ARE NOT TRYING TO JUST REDUCE THE NUMBER OF BOATING DEATHS by, say, 5% !!! The Cold Water Boot Camp volunteer swimmer from CT, gave several lectures about cold water immersion after their DVD came out. He refused to recommend anything beyond "WEAR A PFD ON COLD WATER". Refused to say why!! Comments? Chuck Sutherland skimmer_at_enter.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 6:48 PM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote: > > > > To what extent does a float coat exclude water from around the torso? Who > has tried such gear in cold water? > I had a Mustang float coat (early version) in the late 1970s when I was working on drill ships from Greenland and other icy places. I didn't test it in cold water but I doubt that it would "exclude" much because the "crotch flap" goes over clothes. However Mustang claimded that it was better than nothing and I believe them > > > Do most of you carry a VHF OR cell phone on your PFD or Boat when out on > cold water? > I carry my cell phone in a watertight plastic bag every time I kayak (or bicycle for that matter). I generally carry a handheld VHF when I am paddling salt water. > > > Are VHF radios effective/monitored on inland waters/lakes/rivers? > Not in my experience. Even on larger lakes there is no USCG presence and the police patrols carry and use their own radios. It may be different in other areas, however.. There are now weather broadcasts even for inland areas; that's kind of nice. > > > Are there any states that overtly recommend what we understand as proper > gear/training for open water paddlers? > > Name the State and their website! > I don't know. I'm frankly skeptical that anything will do much good since so many people seem to think that boating and drinking go together. I'm at the point where I now just hope they die before they beget offspring. :P Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'day Chuck, Craig and all, I wear a PFD, and since the discussion last year on thermal insulation, have taken to wearing during winter in Oz, a neoprene Farmer John or wet suit, plus a neoprene jacket over my spray skirt. The thickness of neoprene is then greatest over the torso and least for arms and legs as a compromise between freedom of movement and warmth. Took the trouble to have a trouser zip fitted to the FJ and wet suit, makes it much more practical. The neoprene jacket can be stowed or put on relatively easily while sitting in the kayak. Its safer and easier than putting on a cag as it doesn't have to slip over the head. This combination of clothing also reduces the number of layers I need to wear (used to be about 6, now 3) and consequently the effort of hand washing and drying everything. That Paddlewise discussion was helpful and I'm much less prone to hypothermia now when practising out of the boat. Don't believe The water's cold enough here to create a gasp reflex but can see the point, Is it practical for most people to learn how to suppress it without using their hands? Re the VHF, Its kept in my PFD breast pocket so the aerial is high and vertical. Its not easy to raise the coast guard on inland water and not even from within Sydney harbour. Surprising the occasions when it would have been handy in a harbour, boats in trouble, sending a warning of major flotsam, drifting boats, sinking boats, dead bodies etc! (OK I exaggerate only one dead body in my personal experience! About three or four that I've heard of from other kayakers here) Outside the harbour the VHF doesn't transmit well to the coast guard if I'm paddling fairly close to cliffs, even though it may receive quite adequately. I've found it well worth 'mapping' the areas I paddle over the years to get an idea of the transmission dead spots. The coast guard seem more than happy to provide the occasional Tx/Rx check and this testing also helps me stay in practice with operating the transceiver and maintaining a decent protocol. Surprising how many paddlers here carry a VHF but are too nervous to practice using it at least once or twice a year or even to just monitor the general comm's traffic to get a feel for how things are done. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Back in the early 1980's, when I was working on kayak safety and rescues, I bought a Mustang Float coat with the neoprene crotch strap, like on a wetsuit top, and tried it out. The crotch strap was valuable in that like a wetsuit it helped prevent the transfer of the water your body had warmed up with the ocean. It was bulky and stiff so definitely not good for paddling in. I used to use a full wetsuit paddling WW and in surf, but even there it would quickly exhaust one because paddling with it was like pushing rubber bands that were resisting your strokes. In WW and surfing you can stop and rest but for sea kayaking it would just be too much work. These days I use a farmer john and a paddle jacket. I have one Seda made I use if there is a good chance of being cold and wet. It has a neoprene body but coated fabric sleeves that don't interfere with paddling. I used to surf with a drysuit but never really liked it and usually put a farmer john inside in case it leaked. Even though it had a front zipper so I didn't have to get my head out of the gasket to take a leak it was such a pain to get on and off and I would feel strangled at first but then later the gasket would stretch out too much and deteriorate so it would get too loose. They were also hardly dry (pre Gore-tex anyhow as I'd get way too overheated in them and sweat so much inside I'd soak the insulation inside anyhow. Get good at rolling and practice self rescues until you are an expert at them to back up your roll is my advice. Wear some hypothermia reducing garment you can live and paddle well with without getting too overheated so you can reduce the incidence of cold shock when cold water hits your chest and so it can provide you more time in the water and preserve your strength longer for getting back in the kayak. I think most cases of cold shock activating an uncontrollable gasp reflex also involve alcohol. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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