Re: [Paddlewise] Danish dragon boat, some answers

There is another angle to this, which one may wish to consider - I was trained, as a leader, never to put my neck on the line.   The leader it is responsible for ensuring the safety and well being of those in the party who have less experience and less knowledge of rescues/staying alive, etc.   It is the leader's responsibility to "shepherd" his flock and give moral and physical courage to continue the struggle to stay alive (in these circumstances) .   It is the leader's responsibility to conduct a rescue within the resources of the group, having first assessed the situation.   I suppose, as one of those in the water, one could easily say "he left us to our own devices - knowing that we were inexperienced."     I, like members of Paddlewise, do not have all the facts before us, so I do not wish to make judgements - nevertheless, when the leader is no longer functional, the chain of command is broken, and it takes time for someone else to take charge, make an assessment, and!
  come up with a plan   With this in mind, was the second teacher a competent canoeist/swimmer who could (and possibly did) take over responsibility of the group despite extreme circumstances.   Some people find it difficult to have authority thrust upon them with a moments notice and in an extreme stress situation.
I now tell a tale - the canoeing instructor who shared a flat with me in 1985 was running a canoe coaching course for potential instructors in the Alps and following a capsize, at least one kayak floated off downstream.   A small group then followed by road to catch up with the kayak and recover it.   The instructor clipped himself to the wrong D ring on his WW BA and enterred the water to swim to the kayak, with one of his students holding the throw line.   When the line fully paid out, the student on the bank could not hold on and released the line.   The instructor was found a few days later with a severed tow line still attached to his BA.   The student said to me that he had little or no experience with the use of a throw line.   This brought home the point made to me and others on a rescue course that it is the duty of the person with the most experience, ie, normally the leader of the group, to stand back and conduct the rescue but not be involved in ithimself - to ov!
 ersee the rescue from a distance so that judgements can be made and an action plan carried out.   This was not done in this case and my room mate paid for the mistake with his life.
Looking back on the current discussion, it seems strange that with the number of accidents which take place on the water, we have zeroed in on this particular one to voice ourselves and take stock of things.   We shall all come away from this a little wiser.
Tony

-----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Jackie Myers" <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>
Gesendet: 24-Feb-2011 03:13:36
An: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>
Betreff: Re: [Paddlewise] Danish dragon boat, some answers

Nick Schade wrote:

>The leader in the dragon boat appears to have given up his PFD and thus his life in an effort to save his charges. To me, this indicates that the students were well served by trusting his leadership. Do we have any indications that the teacher/coaches took this adventure lightly? Obviously they did not take it seriously enough, but that is almost always the case when bad stuff happens. With a little more regard for dangers most accidents would not happen. With a little more regard for dangers most of us would not enjoy kayaking as much as we do.
>  
>

Imo, this discussion wasn't about a "little more regard for dangers."

Your response came on comments made not about specific actions of this 
event but on the comments made by myself and Tony regarding blind trust 
placed by novices in their instructors and leaders as well as about 
unqualified, overconfident "trip leaders" who think they are qualified 
to lead a novice group into such conditions. 

PaddleWise was established to be able to discuss these situations where 
hopefully paddlers can learn from them. 

And for anyone who may have missed the specific actions, this is what I 
got from the information reported here about this incident....

Two teachers with thirteen students were out to attempt "to set a new 
record," in heavy seas, "ice slabs floating freely" on the surface, 
water temps less than 36 degrees F, gusting wind, heavy seas, no wet 
suits or dry suits - apparently no means for signaling emergency - 
rescue coming in the form of a female student who somehow, after 
capsizing, managed to fight her way 500 meters against "heavy seas," 
fortunately reach shore and then run 1 km to a store to raise the alarm 
(contact SAR).

When I see this, I think safety was not a primary consideration. I don't 
even think it was secondary.  In the case of instructors with students, 
my opinion is that safety should be the primary consideration, ahead of 
setting any new records. 

As for giving up a pfd to a student who was in trouble, I would imagine 
the parents of that student would say that was the least the teacher 
could have done in a deadly situation.   I'm sorry it cost him his 
life.  Even sorrier that someone didn't look at the situation beforehand 
and say "let's go for the record another day."  I would like for 
paddlers to take from this the strength to say "no, I don't like the 
looks of this and you can call me chicken, but I'm not going."   Trip 
leaders need to be honest in evaluating their abilities in the given 
situation.  If he/she takes a group of students into the above 
conditions (as I read from the reports), they need to re-evaluate their 
leadership skills.  If they survive. 

Jackie
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