PaddleWise by thread

From: skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Richard-Dragon boats
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:36:34 -0500
I particularly appreciate Richard Culpeper's discussion about real life in a
Dragon boat in rough conditions.

Scary stuff-I had no idea!!

 

Chuck Sutherland
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Richard-Dragon boats
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 09:15:41 -0800
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 8:36 AM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote:

> I particularly appreciate Richard Culpeper's discussion about real life in
> a
> Dragon boat in rough conditions.
>
> Scary stuff-I had no idea!!
>
> There is a dragon boat in Oak Harbor where I kept the Muthah-Ship two years
ago and I remember looking at it and wondering whether it would be safe in
heavy water.

The NW Indian tribes have a yearly meetup where the various canoe families
paddle from their home area to a place where they all can meet. The meeting
area varies every year and has included reservation lands in BC as well as
Washington State and there have been canoe families from as far away as  SE
Alaska in attendance.

These are not dragon boats, of course; they are all descendants of various
types of canoes used by earlier people and they look more seaworthy to me.
Nevertheless there have been fatalities from high seas and failure to wear
PFDs (especially by the men). Sue and her family are Chinook and her mother
is active in the tribal affairs so they have a lot of videos of the canoe
trips. We were just looking at them last weekend when we were visiting and I
noticed that almost all of the women paddlers (they call them "pullers")
wore a PFD but almost none of the men. Not surprising, I suppose.

I've volunteered myself to be a "puller" in one of the Chinook canoes this
season so I'll probably have a better idea of how these boats behave in a
seaway. I wonder if they'll think I'm weird if I wear my drysuit. LOL

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Richard-Dragon boats
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:21:07 -0800
I don't recall getting Richard Culpepper's discussion about real life in
a dragon boat. I may have accidentally deleted it. Anybody have it?
-- 
Bradford R. Crain

Quoting Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 8:36 AM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote:
>
>> I particularly appreciate Richard Culpeper's discussion about real life in
>> a
>> Dragon boat in rough conditions.
>>
>> Scary stuff-I had no idea!!
>>
>> There is a dragon boat in Oak Harbor where I kept the Muthah-Ship two years
> ago and I remember looking at it and wondering whether it would be safe in
> heavy water.
>
> The NW Indian tribes have a yearly meetup where the various canoe families
> paddle from their home area to a place where they all can meet. The meeting
> area varies every year and has included reservation lands in BC as well as
> Washington State and there have been canoe families from as far away as  SE
> Alaska in attendance.
>
> These are not dragon boats, of course; they are all descendants of various
> types of canoes used by earlier people and they look more seaworthy to me.
> Nevertheless there have been fatalities from high seas and failure to wear
> PFDs (especially by the men). Sue and her family are Chinook and her mother
> is active in the tribal affairs so they have a lot of videos of the canoe
> trips. We were just looking at them last weekend when we were visiting and I
> noticed that almost all of the women paddlers (they call them "pullers")
> wore a PFD but almost none of the men. Not surprising, I suppose.
>
> I've volunteered myself to be a "puller" in one of the Chinook canoes this
> season so I'll probably have a better idea of how these boats behave in a
> seaway. I wonder if they'll think I'm weird if I wear my drysuit. LOL
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
> www.nwkayaking.net
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Myers <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Richard-Dragon boats
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:52:08 -0800
Bradford R. Crain wrote:

> I don't recall getting Richard Culpepper's discussion about real life in
> a dragon boat. I may have accidentally deleted it. Anybody have it?



This one?


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[Paddlewise] Danish school dragon boat tragedy
Date: 	Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:03:41 -0500
From: 	Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>
To: 	<paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>
References: 	<ceec.1713bdcd.3a8fb593_at_aol.com> 
<A8CEAFB242D5B241902944DE5162D21A2A9EF0_at_emma.moesmand.dk>



A small dragon boat such as the one the school used (or any dragon boat, for
that matter) is not the sort of thing to be in if either wind or waves are
up.  The very low gunwhales let it take water on easily.  The length makes
it very difficult and slow to turn.  The hull shape (a shallow W) combined
with the number of paddlers make it impossible to lean the boat in a timely
and controlled manner to adjust for waves.  The very short paddle length
prevents effective bracing.  The platform on which the steerperson stands
ices over very easily, leading to interruptions in steering and boat balance
when the steers falls.  The steering oar catches crabs extemely easily when
reversing.  The drummer and steers significantly raise the centre of gravity
of the boat.  The significant length and number of paddlers makes the boat
easily get caught and turned broadside by the wind.  The number of paddlers
makes coordinated reaction to wave sets extremely difficult for very skilled
crews, and impossible for most crews.  In short, a dragon boat is totally
unsuited -- literally unseaworthy -- to paddling in rough conditions.

I have found that when a sudden squall hits, the best approach is to steer
into the wind, assign a few paddlers in the stern to bailing, assign a few
paddlers in the bow to assist with steering, use the paddlers midships to
maintain position, wait until things calm down a bit, and then ever so
gently ferry and surf as needed to drift to a safe bay.  It takes a very
skilled crew to do this. Turning when the wind is up?  No way.  Paddling a
dragon boat when it might get rough in cold conditions?  Nuts to that --
there are far less strenuous ways to suicide if one is so inclined.

Attempting to round a buoy in windy conditions, at near freezing wind and
water temperatures, with a recreational crew of teenagers, without adequate
cold water attire, without a motorized chase boat, without communications,
without a rescue plan and onshore rescue coordinator, without, without,
without . . . without a hope in hell.  How terribly sad.  My heart goes out
to the crew and their families.

Richard Culpeper
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Joe P. <jpylka_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Richard-Dragon boats
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:29:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
  In the vicinity of where I live in Central NJ, there are a few Dragon Boat clubs.  One, in Philadelphia, has attained the World Championship in the sport.  
   The one closest to me, the Machestics,  are almost entirely breast cancer survivors -- and they're pretty good.  Depending on how you look at it, I am either pleased or concerned that I have two former students, plus one good friend, on that team.
    This time of year they are off the water.  Usually by early/mid October the boats are taken out of the water and stored indoors until the water warms up again.  
    The boats are somewhat larger and the usual complement here in the US is twenty-two.  There are twenty paddlers, a steerperson and a drummer to set the pacing.  I understand there is another school (tradition) of dragonboat racing which adds one more person; a catcher.  Under those rules one does not win by crossing the finish line but by the catcher grabbing a flag from a mooring as they pass.  I've seen videos of this from Iowa but not locally.  
     So what you have is a long boat that is designed to glide straight for maximal speed and thus will not turn well. 
     Do the paddlers wear PFDs?  No.  Once they're moving there is great exertion and heat generation.  Wearing one would definitely put them at risk of hyperthermia.  The same is true of flatwater sprint racing and the various rowing boats.  However, there is always, always, a chase boat nearby.  
     So, thinking about this I do find it puzzling that there would have been a try for a 'record' in a smaller dragonboat in the dead of winter under clearly less than ideal conditions to achieve that record.  I have difficulties trying to understand the thought process that led to this.  It will be of interest to learn more as things come to light. 
     Jens Viggo, thank you for your efforts covering this unfortunate event.  In time we will have one of the best receent resources with which to help answer many of the questions associated with this event.

Joe P.


-----Original Message-----
>I particularly appreciate Richard Culpeper's discussion about real life in a
>Dragon boat in rough conditions.
>
>Scary stuff-I had no idea!!
>Chuck Sutherland
>***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:54 PDT