Ok, I admit it, I was bad. I broke my Greenland paddle. I think it's glue-able (out on the blade), especially if I apply a solid finish after. However, the only advice I've gotten is "use Gorilla glue!" I do not like Gorilla glue as it is messy and leaves residue. What glue do people who make laminated GP's use? Next question, I have seen suggestions about coating the paddle with epoxy and using fiberglass on the tips. I am not sure what I am easily finding on the Internet or at West Marine is the right stuff. Where do (you) get epoxy and what type is used? I have also seen suggestions to coat the tips with epoxy and use another finish, such as spar varnish, over the whole paddle. Is this to reduce added weight by avoiding additional epoxy? And do you need the fiberglass on the tips, also? Thanks for the help! I am not likely to do this project until the weather is warmer and I can be outside. Pam in Washington State *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The blade actually split for about 6 inches, about 1/2 way down the blade. Lots of surface area to use glue, not end grain so should have strength. The width is from 1 1/2 inches at one end of the split to 2 inches at the other end. There is a piece of the bade that did not split, just broke at the far end. Very lightweight so wasn't the strongest wood to start, not vertical grain. I should be able to clamp it well, once glued. My other Greenland paddle, that I used to get through some 1 inch thick ice, that has all the divots out of the tip and edges! I was planning to epoxy that one. Pam in Washington State In a message dated 2/4/2011 7:09:33 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, marksanders_at_sandmarks.net writes: How far out on the blade and how big of a piece? You're probably best off to use a marine epoxy (West Marine, ect.) and if you've just chipped a piece off the tip, using some fiberglass to reinforce it will work. I worry a bit about moisture collecting around a repair in a paddle that's not completely coated, but Duane says I worry too much! Mark On 2/4/2011 6:34 PM, Pamvetdr_at_aol.com wrote: > Ok, I admit it, I was bad. I broke my Greenland paddle. I think it's > glue-able (out on the blade), especially if I apply a solid finish after. > However, the only advice I've gotten is "use Gorilla glue!" > I do not like Gorilla glue as it is messy and leaves residue. > What glue do people who make laminated GP's use? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Pam, West System Epoxy resin with the slow or fast hardner will work fine. Soak the crack with unthickened epoxy the best you can for a few minutes, and then work some thickened epoxy in there. Clamp it down lightly, wipe up the excess and let harden. With epoxy for the repair, you can still use anything you want for the finish: oil, epoxy, or varnish. I seal my GPs with a coat of epoxy, let harden, sand fair smooth, and apply another coat of epoxy. Then after that hardens, I wet sand lightly with 600 grit and then a wet green pad for the right grip texture. Before the finish though, I put a 1.5 inch wide strips of carbon fiber or fiberglass across the tips to reinforce them. More info is here: http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/woodgp.html Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Pam - Agree 100% with Duane. Just wanted to add that if you use wax paper (cut-rite from the grocery store) around/along the joints under the clamps you will be far less frustrated. Clamping lightly will allow a good epoxy-filled joint and the wax paper will keep the goo in the joint (and off your clamps and workbench). The wax paper releases easily from the hardened epoxy. Duane - how do you make your joints btwn the blade(s) and loom? Anyone - I need to make a 2-piece GP, but I don't like the ferrule-in-the-middle bit. Does anyone have another method? I'm thinking a long scarf joint across the loom joined by multiple brass threaded inserts and screws set flush. Looking forward to all the reasons why you think this is a bad idea... :). Jennifer On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 20:25 -0800, "Duane Strosaker" <strosaker_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > Pam, > > West System Epoxy resin with the slow or fast hardner will work fine. > Soak the crack with unthickened epoxy the best you can for a few minutes, > and then work some thickened epoxy in there. Clamp it down lightly, wipe > up the excess and let harden. With epoxy for the repair, you can still > use anything you want for the finish: oil, epoxy, or varnish. I seal my > GPs with a coat of epoxy, let harden, sand fair smooth, and apply another > coat of epoxy. Then after that hardens, I wet sand lightly with 600 grit > and then a wet green pad for the right grip texture. Before the finish > though, I put a 1.5 inch wide strips of carbon fiber or fiberglass across > the tips to reinforce them. > > More info is here: > http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/woodgp.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jennifer asked about 2-piece GPs I have made 4 so far and they all work well and look just like a one-piece GP. I would use the same design to make more in the same way. It is a bit time-consuming and tricky. The central round ferrule is certainly an easier way ;-) I always glue my GPs up and make them hollow-shafted. If I want to make a split paddle, I put about a 800mm (32") long tube into the centre of the loom. I then carve the paddle and rough-sand it before running a saw through the middle of the loom. Finally I glue a stub of smaller diameter tube into one part (as a joiner) and put a fastener in to hold the two bits together. I believe that my all-cedar paddles are pretty light - Natasha's day-to-day beater is 760 gms (27 oz) for a 2250mm (89") paddle with loom of 28 x 39mm (1.1 x 1.5"). My splits wind up about 180 gms (6 oz) heavier than my full-length paddles. I find that acceptable for the strength and the way they 'feel' exactly like the 'real thing'. The bits I've left out of the above description are: (a) You don't make the cut in the centre of the loom - you offset it a bit so the two halves are exactly the same length after you've glued in the inner joiner tube. Don't do this arithmetic when you're tired ;-) (b) I worry about a stress concentration where the inner (800mm) tube suddenly stops and all the strength has to come from a thin collar of cedar. It helps to have a paddle in front of you to visualise this. To make the transition gradual, I stuff a weird-shaped fragment of carbon fibre fabric into the end of the tube and tail it out into the internal cavity of the loom with a few small bits of foam to hold it in place as it all epoxies together. That way the transition from fibre tube to cedar is gradual. It seems to work - I haven't had any breakage with some pretty tough use. I put a fairly lousy collage of pictures together a few years back - you could view them here http://www.mmcl.co.nz/Mystery/images/GP-split.jpg (c) Note that I prefer non-shouldered GPs, if you build shouldered ones, you may be able to do the tube transition outboard of the shoulders and have enough wood to ease the pain. (d) Finding nesting tubes that fit inside the wood for my own grip/loom size (35 x 41mm or 1.38 x 1.61") is easy - I can just use standard 'euro' paddle shafts and their associated 'split kits'. I have no problem getting a busted euro paddle from my local kayak shop - although the split kits are getting harder to find. However, Natasha's hands are smaller and I had to go look for some small nesting tube off-cuts from a local carbon / glass tube maker. By nesting, I mean that the inner tube is a nice tight, sliding fit inside the outer tube. Any looseness and the assembled paddle will not be rigid. (e) I held together my first two split GPs using A-spring clips - as the early euro split paddles did. These paddles are our everyday spare paddles and live on the afterdeck - they may need to go together quickly and they do. Since most GP looms are asymmetric, you can have the 'tit' on the A-spring standing proud of the loom if you drill its hole down from the 'top' of the loom (with the paddle in the power position) or you can have it recessed or flush if you drill its hole from the front of the loom. I've never liked the idea of having the tit release when my hand slides over it - so I made mine flush. It's a little harder to take apart; but hey, I can always take a paddle apart slowly... (f) I held together my second two split GPs using 4mm SS socket-head cap screws. These were going to do a lot of miles as primary paddles, after flying halfway round the world in two pieces; so although there was no requirement for emergency assembly, they needed to be rigid. I drilled a 4mm hole straight through the whole (finished & assembled) paddle loom - from front to back - through the middle of the tube-inside-tube section. Then I drilled a shallow hole (concentrically) for the nut on one side and another for the head of the capscrew on the opposite side. Finally I glued a SS nylon lock nut into the back. I carry a couple (one's a spare) of SS Allen keys to assemble and disassemble these splits. I don't tighten the screws very tight at all - rather like screwing in a light bulb ;-) These worked far better than my expectations - the small compression (and perhaps slight deformation of the tubes) seems to freeze the joint completely. After some hard use there is no vestige of movement between the two ends of the paddle and they don't need re-tightening in use. (g) I glue up my GPs from 7 bits of wood (or 9 if they have tips). The main piece is full-length and has four long skinny triangles glued to widen the blade areas. Those four pieces can be hardwood for a more durable 'ice' paddle. Then there are two somewhat shorter and narrower 'cheek' pieces that go on either side of the main piece - to fatten the loom and the faces of the blades. I usually cut a long slot in the middle of the main piece - as it is so strengthened by the cheeks that this wood isn't needed. Hope this gives you some ideas. Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Pam asked about repairing a GP Duane really said it all - use a marine epoxy (eg: West Epoxy). If there's a lump missing from tip or edge, smooth out the face of the wound and fit (hand carve) a small lump of wood to glue in. I like shaping the repair to look something like that first bite in a sandwich - an arc. Maybe avoiding hard corners isn't necessary, but to me it looks a little nicer (as there aren't many hard corners on a GP). Match the grain if you wish - or make it a contrast to emphasise the 'patch'. Glue and let cure and then shave down to match the surrounding wood of the paddle. These repairs are easy and have worked well for me up to about 50 x 20mm (so far). In the case of a big break - further up the shaft - I broke one paddle and never managed to repair it satisfactorily. I was trying to fix it 'quick & nasty' which is probably why... I didn't much like the paddle, so I soon gave up and made a better one. At least the process gave me a better appreciation of how I wouldn't field-repair a GP ;-) I should also point out that the breakage occurred because I'd been too clever and taken too much wood out from the shoulder areas of the blades. It was strong enough for paddling - although it offended the eye a bit - but it wasn't strong enough for abuse. One learns... If I really wanted to fix a break in the loom (or in the blade near to the loom), I guess I'd try splicing in a new bit of wood, using a good long scarf joint and some form of jig (to keep the bits all properly aligned, like a leg splint) - which you could make using the unbroken end of the GP as a pattern. Hasn't yet arisen, luckily. Since I oil my GPs, I use a hardwood edge and tip (in preference to Duane's glass or carbon reinforcement) - just because under oil the fibre will not look as pretty as it does under epoxy. The only GPs I've epoxied all-over are the ones I took to Alaska with the Feathercraft. I found that our oiled paddles chafe too much with the FC - the deck ropes are right on the edge of the hull/deck and the paddles rub there when we get tired & sloppy. The epoxied GPs slide on the rope & fabric just like a slick 'euro' paddle shaft. How do you all deal with the little wounds to the epoxy covering layer that lets in the sea water and causes little 'ulcers' to bloom ? Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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