A couple years back, National Safe Boating council attended the ACA annual meeting. They came to promote the use of inflatable PFDs by kayakers. Just pull the rip cord that activates the air cylinder and the tubes inflate. The pull cord is at waist level. There you are upside down in cold water, extra tight hot shot spray skirt holding tight to the knife edge glass cockpit rim, paddle in your hand. What do ya do? Fish around for the pull cord, drop the paddle and pull the spray skirt, gasp in horror etc.? I took a USCGAUX basic boating course for power boaters over the past month. They showed us an inflatable pfd that fills as soon as it gets wet. A few days ago, a young USCG cadet was participating in a practice mission, feel off a ship's ladder into the water. He was carrying about 60 pounds of gear at the time. Hit the water and disappeared. It seems that the water activated pfd that he had didn't have a gas canister hooked up in it. They recovered his body after a while. I want my pfd to be effective without possibility of failure. I look forward to comments anyone may have about the value of inflatable pfds. I will grant that just as victims are frequently so close to shore that only a pfd is necessary for cold water boaters and that most of the time for the first year or two the owners will be appropriately attentive to inflatable pfd maintenance. I have noticed that a compressed air horn will always work until the day it must work, at which point it ran out of air last time out. Concept of "foolproof" or "fail safe" sticks in my mind. Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Obviously maintenance is required. A PFD isn't a PFD if it is an inflatable with no inherent buoyancy - its just a cordura-clad uninflated air chamber. However, combined with some of the inherent buoyancy with a wet suit, it can be a nice option for someone wanting unrestricted freedom of movement. I have two. hey are legitimate options, used cautiously. As I mostly solo I went back to regular PFD, the kind that floats. I did like the inflatable when uninflated for swimming - din't slow you dow. I did use the inflatable one day after surgery and I couldn't roll and got dizzy and swam to shore. After awhile, it got too difficult keeping my head up high while swimming the kayak behind me. The 30 plus pounds of buoyancy was great, but harder to swim in. Everything is a compromise, but you know that. I'm sorry about the fellow who died in service. Not exactly a nice outcome to a fall overboard. Doug > A couple years back, National Safe Boating council attended the > ACA annual > meeting. They came to promote the use of inflatable PFDs by > kayakers. Just > pull the rip cord that activates the air cylinder and the tubes > inflate. The > pull cord is at waist level. There you are upside down in cold > water, extra > tight hot shot spray skirt holding tight to the knife edge glass > cockpitrim, paddle in your hand. What do ya do? > > > > Fish around for the pull cord, drop the paddle and pull the > spray skirt, > gasp in horror etc.? > > > > I took a USCGAUX basic boating course for power boaters over the > past month. > They showed us an inflatable pfd that fills as soon as it gets > wet. A few > days ago, a young USCG cadet was participating in a practice > mission, feel > off a ship's ladder into the water. He was carrying about 60 > pounds of gear > at the time. Hit the water and disappeared. It seems that the water > activated pfd that he had didn't have a gas canister hooked up > in it. They > recovered his body after a while. > > > > I want my pfd to be effective without possibility of failure. > > > > I look forward to comments anyone may have about the value of > inflatablepfds. I will grant that just as victims are frequently > so close to shore > that only a pfd is necessary for cold water boaters and that > most of the > time for the first year or two the owners will be appropriately > attentive to > inflatable pfd maintenance. I have noticed that a compressed air > horn will > always work until the day it must work, at which point it ran > out of air > last time out. > > > > Concept of "foolproof" or "fail safe" sticks in my mind. > > > > Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:16 PM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote: > A couple years back, National Safe Boating council attended the ACA annual > meeting. They came to promote the use of inflatable PFDs by kayakers. Just > pull the rip cord that activates the air cylinder and the tubes inflate. > The > pull cord is at waist level. There you are upside down in cold water, extra > tight hot shot spray skirt holding tight to the knife edge glass cockpit > rim, paddle in your hand. What do ya do? > > I'm with Doug on the combination PFD. The Kokatat has sufficient flotation to keep me up (and yes, I've tested that). It can be inflated by mouth so you can choose to inflate it a little or more depending. Fully inflated it's bulky but significantly helps the roll. Deflated it's not bulky at all and you can swim in it pretty easily I think. As far as a PFD being the best survival tactic in cold water... then what's second best? A PFD and a drysuit? A PFD and a wetsuit? That seems ludicrous to me. The logical answer is that the single best survival tactic in cold water is a drysuit with suitable layers underneath and a PFD. A PFD alone has to be somewhere down the list since quite a few people die with a PFD on in cold water. And not many people die at all in cold water with a drysuit and PFD on. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA (now actually water!) www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 9 March 2011 Craig said: > As far as a PFD being the best survival tactic in cold water... > then what's second best? A PFD and a drysuit? A PFD and a > wetsuit? That seems ludicrous to me. At the risk of thrashing this to death, I see it as an example of the 80:20 rule. We all know that the highway death toll would drop if we could just get everyone to equip their vehicles with a NASCAR cage, 6-way belts, a halon fire system and then ease them into a full-face helmet. It's undeniably a better tactic than relying on air-bags - but there would be some buyer resistance. Surely the choice for the USCG is between one simple message - "spend $ 50 on a pfd and wear it" (in your kayak, your small fishing boat or small sailboat) or an obviously better message saying "spend $ 800 on a drysuit & pfd and wear them"... Or, more truthfully but also more demotivatingly: "please spend the $50 - but maybe don't bother, because it's not a perfect solution". It looks to me that USCG has maybe 5-10,000 people a year fall into cool or cold water - of whom about 500 don't climb out. They are looking for a simplistic 'bang-for-buck' message and they believe they have found it. If they could knock that 500 in half - or even just back to 400, they'd be happy. Whatever the USCG front men are saying, I think that the organisation has decided that the result of pushing for a 'perfect solution' will be less effective than pushing for an affordable one which has some chance of widespread adoption. 80:20 Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote: >As far as a PFD being the best survival tactic in cold water... then what's >second best? A PFD and a drysuit? A PFD and a wetsuit? What about a ordinary pfd for paddling and an inflatable as backup? Some years back at the beginning of my paddling career I didn't possess the gear and equipment that I now find natural. So early in the season when the water temperature was about 45 F, 7 C, I went out with a trip leader but was caught by a change in the weather. I had not been too convinced about my own capabilities, so just the week before I had bought an inflatable and adjusted it to fit over my pfd, and stored it in a tubing next to the seat in my kayak. The salt tablet was replaced by a small nut to prevent accidental activation. On our way back I capsized in the lively sea and couldn't get back in the kayak. I pulled the inflatable out of the kayak and "dressed" in the water. After dressing I activated the pfd-cartridge. Then I hanged on to the stern of another kayak and was carried with my legs out of the cold up on the deck of the kayak and supported efficiently by the buoyancy and the hood of the inflatable. It gave a good protection against the cold waves. More than half an hour later and with my legs pretty blue we reached the beach. On our way towards the beach my rescuer capsized twice in the breaking waves and I had to turn him back up. I shall always remember the experience. Now I use the pfd as a body harness and I don't know where I should have my gear if it wasn't there. My skills are much better and the inflatable is no longer in use. Today I prefer my dry suit as precaution together with my body harness, vhf and plb. Then I didn't know better, but the inflatable proved its worth. It was a strange feeling to go back to the store and ask for a new co2 cartridge. So, what about a ordinary pfd for paddling and an inflatable as backup? best regards Jens Viggo Moesmand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 9 March 2011, Chuck said > I want my pfd to be effective without possibility of failure No real argument with that line of thought - as long as you always wear your non-inflatable PFD - and don't leave it off because it's too hot or too bulky. In NZ, most kayakers (except for very casual sit-on-top users) are fanatic about wearing PFDs - which I think is great, but surprising, as we are not generally a very safety-conscious nation. However, there are many other places where I have seen lots of PFDs under deck bungies... I reckon that an inflatable PFD being worn is better than a non-inflatable PFD on the afterdeck. The inflatable PFDs are widely used by local sailors (especially dinghy sailors - lasers & the like), but I know less than a handful of kayakers using them. That said, those few include some of the most blue-water, long-distance guys I know. I have thought seriously of using an inflatable in conjunction with a drysuit - as the drysuit gives me so much (immediate) floatation anyway. It would be easier to travel with an inflatable PFD (much less bulky). I did check for our Alaska trip and was surprised to find that airlines specifically allow a CO2 cartridge on the PFD and one spare (YMMV). Now, in defence of inflatable PFDs, they all seem to have an oral-inflation tube in case the CO2 fails to work. Note that this is supposed to work even if the CO2 canister is missing. Not ideal - but better than nothing. One thing that appeals to me about the inflatable PFDs is the much greater head support (or face-out-of-the-water floatation) than is found in any non-inflatable PFD I've ever seen. Perhaps of no value in the short term, as our maximum chance of unconsciousness will be at time of immersion - and I don't think I want an automatically inflating PFD... so perhaps this is not of much advantage until you've been in the water long enough to start losing consciousness. I do also agree that long term CO2 maintenance is a worry - all those with out-dated flares, raise a hand ;-) Just my 2 cents... Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
that is a very interesting story .....and to be honest i doubt it happened the way you have presented it, it sounds a lot like the "stories" about WMD's ....... would you please send more details i.e. when/where.... i think i'll google it just to verify ..... thanks, steve In a message dated 3/8/2011 9:18:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, skimmer_at_enter.net writes: I took a USCGAUX basic boating course for power boaters over the past month. They showed us an inflatable pfd that fills as soon as it gets wet. A few days ago, a young USCG cadet was participating in a practice mission, feel off a ship's ladder into the water. He was carrying about 60 pounds of gear at the time. Hit the water and disappeared. It seems that the water activated pfd that he had didn't have a gas canister hooked up in it. They recovered his body after a while. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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