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From: Moses Fridlich <mofrid_at_optonline.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:59:02 -0400
As a point of interest regarding milfoil invasion. For the last 25 years we
have a small cabin on a small lake here in NY. The center of the lake is
quite deep while all around the edges the milfoil used to rage. At first
there was an association that hired someone to remove the milfoil by the
truck load with a special harvesting contraption. When that seemed futile
and too costly, no one did anything anymore. We built a raft and ripped a
path with rakes to get to the deeper water to go swimming.
Approx. 10 - 12 years ago the N.Y.State DEC decided to make our lake an
experiment. They took European Grass Carp sterilized them and released them
in the lake. The first year I personally did not see any difference,
although the DEC deemed the experiment a success. They stated that the
number of carps were not sufficient and decided to release more of them.
Within 2 years, the lake was totally cleared of  milfoil and is still clear
today.  I have not read anything more about this but I suspect either the
cost of releasing these fish, or the difficulty in obtaining them, or some
other problem, is the reason that they have not been used elsewhere.

On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:45 PM, PaddleWise <
owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> wrote:

> The lake in front of my house is going to be undergoing a
> disinfection program this summer in what seems like a continual attack on
> milfoil. All the previous programs have failed miserably. I'm sure no one
> thinks that it can be eradicated now; all they hope to do is keep it
> more-or-less under control.
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From: Alfonso Vazquez-Cuervo <alvazquez_at_kayakguide.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:59:22 -0400
Great idea and a very encouraging story. Gives Hope!

In Florida, unfortunately we've been dealing with invasive aquatic plants with
expensive and toxic herbicides for years. To make matters worse, when surface
plants are killed in volume, they fall to the bottom and decay in a way that
causes even more problems for water quality. Though there is a risk in doing
anything, it seems like a carefully considered and controlled biological
attack like the carp would be safer generally. Hats off to NY state!

Al Vazquez
KayakGuide.com
    Places to Paddle


On Jul 19, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Moses Fridlich wrote:

> As a point of interest regarding milfoil invasion. For the last 25 years we
> have a small cabin on a small lake here in NY. The center of the lake is
> quite deep while all around the edges the milfoil used to rage. At first
> there was an association that hired someone to remove the milfoil by the
> truck load with a special harvesting contraption. When that seemed futile
> and too costly, no one did anything anymore. We built a raft and ripped a
> path with rakes to get to the deeper water to go swimming.
> Approx. 10 - 12 years ago the N.Y.State DEC decided to make our lake an
> experiment. They took European Grass Carp sterilized them and released them
> in the lake. The first year I personally did not see any difference,
> although the DEC deemed the experiment a success. They stated that the
> number of carps were not sufficient and decided to release more of them.
> Within 2 years, the lake was totally cleared of  milfoil and is still clear
> today.  I have not read anything more about this but I suspect either the
> cost of releasing these fish, or the difficulty in obtaining them, or some
> other problem, is the reason that they have not been used elsewhere.
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 09:20:48 -0700
Interfering with the environment and natural processes is a dangerous
game, and can lead to unintended consequences. I sure hope we know what
we're doing, but seriously doubt it. In Oregon, fisherman use live minnows
to catch rainbow trout in Diamond Lake, and dump their unused live bait
in the lake. The minnows flourish, get really large, and take over the lake.
Then the State has to come in and eradicate all fish life in the lake, and
replant with trout.

-- 
Bradford R. Crain

Quoting Alfonso Vazquez-Cuervo <alvazquez_at_kayakguide.com>:

> Great idea and a very encouraging story. Gives Hope!
>
> In Florida, unfortunately we've been dealing with invasive aquatic  
> plants with
> expensive and toxic herbicides for years. To make matters worse, when surface
> plants are killed in volume, they fall to the bottom and decay in a way that
> causes even more problems for water quality. Though there is a risk in doing
> anything, it seems like a carefully considered and controlled biological
> attack like the carp would be safer generally. Hats off to NY state!
>
> Al Vazquez
> KayakGuide.com
>     Places to Paddle
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Moses Fridlich wrote:
>
>> As a point of interest regarding milfoil invasion. For the last 25 years we
>> have a small cabin on a small lake here in NY. The center of the lake is
>> quite deep while all around the edges the milfoil used to rage. At first
>> there was an association that hired someone to remove the milfoil by the
>> truck load with a special harvesting contraption. When that seemed futile
>> and too costly, no one did anything anymore. We built a raft and ripped a
>> path with rakes to get to the deeper water to go swimming.
>> Approx. 10 - 12 years ago the N.Y.State DEC decided to make our lake an
>> experiment. They took European Grass Carp sterilized them and released them
>> in the lake. The first year I personally did not see any difference,
>> although the DEC deemed the experiment a success. They stated that the
>> number of carps were not sufficient and decided to release more of them.
>> Within 2 years, the lake was totally cleared of  milfoil and is still clear
>> today.  I have not read anything more about this but I suspect either the
>> cost of releasing these fish, or the difficulty in obtaining them, or some
>> other problem, is the reason that they have not been used elsewhere.
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From: Moses Fridlich <mofrid_at_optonline.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:10:15 -0400
> Interfering with the environment and natural processes is a dangerous
game, and can lead to unintended consequences.

We have been doing this since we landed on this continent. We brought in
many plants and animals and often wrecked havoc on the local ecology.
For example: I did a kayak trip in Florida to Cayo Costa Island State Park
(one of the barrier islands on the West Coast) and found out that in the
1800's, a pine tree brought in from Austria to provide shade took over as an
invasive species and changed much of the local Florida plant life. On Cayo
Costa they killed all the pines, (except for a few in the campground) to let
the natural flora come back.

Some plants brought as ornamental flowers, such as purple loosestrife have
caused irreparable damage to our environment. They are pretty, but just
listen to what Wikipedia says about this plant:
"Infestations result in dramatic disruption in water flow in rivers and
canals, and a sharp decline in biological
diversity<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_diversity>as native
food and cover plant species, notably
cattails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typha>, are completely crowded out,
and the life cycles of organisms from waterfowl to amphibians to algae are
affected. A single plant may produce up to three million tiny seeds
annually. Easily carried by wind and water, the seeds germinate in moist
soils after overwintering. The plant can also sprout anew from pieces of
root left in the soil or water. Once established, loosestrife stands are
difficult and costly to remove by mechanical and chemical means.
I am just touching on 2 species and I am sure there are thousands more.
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From: Robert Carter <revkayak_at_aptalaska.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:23:17 -0800
God made the mountains
God made the sky
God made the people, God know why.
He fixed up the planet and done it up good
now in come the people and gum it up good.

Ben Rumpson, in the movie Paint Your wagon
>> Interfering with the environment and natural processes is a dangerous
> game, and can lead to unintended consequences.
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:52:15 -0700
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Moses Fridlich <mofrid_at_optonline.net>wrote:

> As a point of interest regarding milfoil invasion....
>

Thanks for posting this. One of my clients as a network engineer is the
local governmental agency that is in charge of the local lake waters and I'm
going to pass this information along to them. It's nice to hear that there
is one success story.

As long as the fish are sterilized there should be little problem. A few
years back they state brought in some sterilized tiger pike to control some
other invasive species in some lakes just west of us. These were smaller
lakes popular with local fishermen (and fishermen from the Seattle area, as
well) and apparentlly they've done whatever it was they wanted them to do.
The fish were nasty looking little critters with mouths full of teeth but
after the second year they were being caught by the fishermen along with the
local bass and crappie and as far as I've heard they're all gone now.

We do have a problem with purple loosestryfe which is a beautiful flower and
was brought in by the professors at Washington State University to reduce
the erosion problems in the irrigation canals. Well, they certainly did
that!!! They then brought something else in to crowd out the purple
loosestyfe and now *that* is also a problem.

The milfoil, according to a local theory, is the result of people emptying
out their home aquariums into the local lakes. Millfoil is apparently a
popular aquarium plant.

California has had people selling piranhas (the S. American carnivorous
fish) on the Internet!

Florida is overrun with pythons that were apparently released from a
facility that was doing experiements on them near Homestead, FL before a
hurricane came through and all the snakes were released into the wild.
Augmented by, apparently, people who seem enamored enough of these snakes to
have kept them as pets but then released them.

Now everyone is scared that cobras, which are also highly sought-after by
certain individuals, may get loose and create an even more serious problem.

It just gets better and better......

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net and www.bigboxbikes.com
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From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:06:09 -0700
You know the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park were sterilized, but according 
to Dr. Ian Malcolm, "life finds a way!"

On 7/19/2011 6:52 PM, Craig Jungers wrote:
> As long as the fish are sterilized there should be little problem.
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:43:40 -0700
  According to Wikipedia, the Burmese python averages about twelve feet at
adulthood, but can approach twenty feet in length. The reticulated python
can be twenty eight feet long, and have been seen far out to sea. Pythons
can eat a whole deer, and have been known to attack humans. So, is
a Florida kayaker safer on land or on water? And if they can survive and
multiply in south Florida, how do you suppose they will like Los Angeles
and San Diego?
-- 
Bradford R. Crain

Quoting Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>:


> Florida is overrun with pythons that were apparently released from a
> facility that was doing experiements on them near Homestead, FL before a
> hurricane came through and all the snakes were released into the wild.
> Augmented by, apparently, people who seem enamored enough of these snakes to
> have kept them as pets but then released them.
>
> Now everyone is scared that cobras, which are also highly sought-after by
> certain individuals, may get loose and create an even more serious problem.
>
> It just gets better and better......
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
> www.nwkayaking.net and www.bigboxbikes.com
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From: <seakayakerjb_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 02:12:47 +0000
Easy, I resemble that remark. ;-)

------Original Message------
From: Mark Sanders
Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
To: Craig Jungers
Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Aquatic invasive species
Sent: Jul 19, 2011 21:06

You know the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park were sterilized, but according 
to Dr. Ian Malcolm, "life finds a way!"

On 7/19/2011 6:52 PM, Craig Jungers wrote:
> As long as the fish are sterilized there should be little problem.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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