Main point: Is there an ideal diving kayak. One that is light wt, has a seaworthy hull, sit on top boat, efficient to paddle and move through the water, and has space to store the usual judicious amount of necessary gear: tanks, wt belts, regulator, an anchor system, bc device, etc. Plastic tub style boats don't cut it... and are really not all that interesting, or fun to paddle imho. Background of my interest: In the old days... ie early 70s, I used to dive with an inner tube, and use one tank in a day, and mostly snorkeling to assure the best use of that tank. I did come across two fellow divers who had fiberglass sots with all the above, and were quite good in the water... but I have yet so see something like that for sale anyway, esp now that I have an interest in buying such a product. After eventually putting diving aside due to costs and time issue, I eventually started paddling... ww, then sea kayaks... and now, esp since I have two boys who are interested in diving... would like to find a way to combine the two interests, and slowing getting my boys interesting in paddling as they dive... since the have not gotten the bug of sea paddling. I suspect a dual purpose boat would reallly snag them... and eventually turn them into paddlers, while making diving more interesting to them, and me. (I am not really all the interested in diving anymore.... but would do it with my boys.) Thanks... Mike Orchard Vancouver, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Check out this link for information on kayak diving. I bought this book about 10 years ago from Sports Chalet, and I'm suprised to see it is still available. ? Mike Kory ? http://www.kayakdiving.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Michael Orchard <mspadorchard_at_comcast.net> To: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 9:03 am Subject: [Paddlewise] Idea diving kayak? Main point: Is there an ideal diving kayak. One that is light wt, has a seaworthy hull, sit on top boat, efficient to paddle and move through the water, and has space to store the usual judicious amount of necessary gear: tanks, wt belts, regulator, an anchor system, bc device, etc. Plastic tub style boats don't cut it... and are really not all that interesting, or fun to paddle imho. Background of my interest: In the old days... ie early 70s, I used to dive with an inner tube, and use one tank in a day, and mostly snorkeling to assure the best use of that tank. I did come across two fellow divers who had fiberglass sots with all the above, and were quite good in the water... but I have yet so see something like that for sale anyway, esp now that I have an interest in buying such a product. After eventually putting diving aside due to costs and time issue, I eventually started paddling... ww, then sea kayaks... and now, esp since I have two boys who are interested in diving... would like to find a way to combine the two interests, and slowing getting my boys interesting in paddling as they dive... since the have not gotten the bug of sea paddling. I suspect a dual purpose boat would reallly snag them... and eventually turn them into paddlers, while making diving more interesting to them, and me. (I am not really all the interested in diving anymore.... but would do it with my boys.) Thanks... Mike Orchard Vancouver, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I inexplicably received a "May, 2011" issue of Canoe and Kayak Magazine which has some reviews of "Big Water Fishing Kayaks" in it. I have a subscription to the magazine (along with their companion "Bike Magazine") and like it but I can't figure out why I got a May issue in November. Oh, well. If you run across it (their "2011 Paddle Guide") you might like to read the reviews. One is Ocean Kayaks Trident Ultra 4.7 which they seem to like. If I were diving or fishing regularly anywhere in the Pacific Northwest I would absolutely be in a plastic SOT kayak in a drysuit with a Kokatat SeaOh2 (a PFD you can also inflate). With an extra paddle. And a VHF. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike, When I read your email I immediately thought of Ocean Kayaks which is a premier manufacturer of fishing kayaks... but their web site is, hands down, the worst I've ever seen. So I did some more searching and found a great web page describing diving from SOT kayaks: http://www.scubadiving.com/training/basic-skills/kayak-diving which seems pretty interesting. A Google search for "dive kayak" brought up the X-factor dive/fishing kayak which is another SOT in poly that seems pretty useful. Ocean Kayaks are pretty popular among kayak fishing folks and often find their way to craigslist and eBay so you might want to keep a lookout for those. In order to search craigslist for something you can search several areas at one time with searchtempest.com ... it also comes up with some eBay results too. My wife and I used to dive a lot... mostly snorkling but we were both certified for SCUBA 25 years ago and did it a lot. I still prefer snorkling on a nice reef in warm water but not much of that around here. Good luck, Craig Jungers www.nwkayaking.net www.bigboxbikes.com On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Michael Orchard <mspadorchard_at_comcast.net>wrote: > Is there an ideal diving kayak. One that is light wt, has a seaworthy > hull, sit on top boat, efficient to paddle and move through the water, and > has space to store the usual judicious amount of necessary gear: tanks, wt > belts, regulator, an anchor system, bc device, etc. Plastic tub style boats > don't cut it... and are really not all that interesting, or fun to paddle > imho. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
thanks Craig.... I have seen Ocean kayaks... they seem to be everywhere... and to my way of thinking, in comparison to a good real sea going yak... are lacking a great deal. They are plenty on the used market... but don't seem to be well designed. To my limitted experience with them, based on one paddle, and looking at some of their boats I did not paddle.. their hulls are very inefficient. I have not looked for a couple of years... but did find one boat that was at one time being made on the east coast, out of fiberglass... and designed by a marine boat architect, whose name I don't recall. They may have been the exact boat I experienced once on Bodega Bay. As far as I can tell... those fiberglass boats are out of production, and the designer moved on the sailboats or some other boat designing. http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/showBoat.html?boatID=1632&boattype=Kayaks Hurricane Kayak I think... may have been the name of the original boat company... but it is not in anyway the original... to my way of thinking it should be modest weight, and longer like a real sea kayak... and have and efficient hull shape, with reasonable set up for the gear. Don't think the heavy plastic boats I have seen are all that well designed in any aspect.. except cost. Thanks... M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Jungers Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Idea diving kayak? When I read your email I immediately thought of Ocean Kayaks which is a premier manufacturer of fishing kayaks... but their web site is, hands down, the worst I've ever seen. So I did some more searching and found a great web page describing diving from SOT kayaks: http://www.scubadiving.com/training/basic-skills/kayak-diving which seems pretty interesting. A Google search for "dive kayak" brought up the X-factor dive/fishing kayak which is another SOT in poly that seems pretty useful. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Orchard wrote: >>>>>>>>thanks Craig.... I have seen Ocean kayaks... they seem to be everywhere... and to my way of thinking, in comparison to a good real sea going yak... are lacking a great deal. They are plenty on the used market... but don't seem to be well designed. To my limitted experience with them, based on one paddle, and looking at some of their boats I did not paddle.. their hulls are very inefficient. I have not looked for a couple of years... but did find one boat that was at one time being made on the east coast, out of fiberglass... and designed by a marine boat architect, whose name I don't recall. They may have been the exact boat I experienced once on Bodega Bay. As far as I can tell... those fiberglass boats are out of production, and the designer moved on the sailboats or some other boat designing......<<<<< Michael, I think you were describing the HOPonTOP kayak designed by Naval Architect (who was already a sailboat designer, having something to do with an America's Cup boat, before designing the HOPonTOP) Paul Cronin. The original version was fiberglass and was 16 feet long by 28.125" wide. Later on, the company changed its name so that model became the Heritage Kayaks Nomad (and a plastic version with the same name was also made). I paddled the fiberglass one back in January 1997 when it first came out. Sea Kayaker magazine also did a review of it not too much later. I thought it had some nice features and was well made. It had a good balance between tracking and turning and also very little weather helm in side winds. Its hull design was very much like the Ocean Kayaks Scupper though, with the central rounded tube on an otherwise flat bottom. I timed it for top speed and it was much slower that most other kayaks I had tested. It took me 44 seconds to sprint down the dock near my shop (just south of NWOC). The average of 147 North American sea kayaks I've sprint tested over the same course is a hair over 38 seconds. Given it was January, we should probably deduct a couple of seconds from its time because cold water is stickier at about the rate of 2.5% for each 10 degrees F. I recall that in small chop the waves would get trapped in the pocket near the bow between the flat bottom raising up out of the water and the central tube and make a constant slap-slap-slap sound when moving forward. I found that quite annoying. In 1999 Heritage came out with an 18' long by 26" wide fiberglass sit-on-top called the Expedition XL. Perhaps that is the one you tried. I've never seen one of those so know nothing of its hull shape. I can tell you that if most of that length and width is on the water, that even if the hull is more ship shaped a kayak that long and wide is going to feel pretty sluggish from all that friction. Speaking of the Scupper, back in the late 1980's I was in a fun kayak race near Anacortes and recall that the Ocean Kayaks Scupper designer, Tim Niemier, was one of the earliest finishers in his 14' long by 26" wide Scupper kayak. Since the Scupper looked to me like it had a lot of unnecessary wetted surface and was on the short side as well, I concluded that Tim must be a very strong paddler indeed. Unfortunately, I've never paddled one when I was near my sprint test course. Tim's original kayak, the Mark I (14'), from way back in 1971 was fiberglass. He sold a Mark II (13') and Mark III (16') in fiberlass under the name Ocean Kayaks Ltd when he lived in CA. I've never seen any of those but understand their hulls were much like a Scupper's. Tim originally named the Scupper the Coaster, Luckily I heard about it early enough I could tell him that that name was already taken before he got too many brochures printed that way. Below are some notes on Heritage Kayaks from the spreadsheet I keep information on kayaks in: HERITAGE KAYAKS (started as: HOPonTOP) (HKW):Paul Cronin N.A.& pres. (1997) 55 Ballou Blvd., Bristol, RI 02809 (401)253-3408 (was 0401) fax:(401)254-6994 www.heritagekayaks.com info_at_heritagekayaks.com founder/CEO:Hol Whitney)(before 2000 was Heritage BoatWorks, Inc., 40 Grove St. Suite 320, Wellesley, MA 02181 brochure:(800)430-0998 old phone:(781)237-1114 old fax:(781)235-1348 old e-mail:hhotkyks_at_aol.com) (uscg-Heritage Kayaks, Heritage Boatworks Inc, 40 Grove St., Suite 320, Wellesley, MA 02181, (781)237-1114, registered 5/98, factory: 55 Ballou Blvd. etc.--uscg)(became part of LEGACY PADDLESPORTS and by 2007 merged with LIQUID LOGIC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I had a chance to demo the whole hop-on-top line at a demo day. Terrific boats. The thigh straps were great the boats rolled easily, full lean turns with the hull at about 70 degrees were possible. The hull shape, at least on the 18', was intriguing. The shape at the waterline was similar to a current design speedster - parabolic/rounded arch. Above the water line the boat flared out at a slight angle, maybe 10 degrees off being parallel to the surface of the water, so that the boat had about a 17" waterline but a wider beam. Stability was very good. A local rental place still has a half dozen of the fiberglass 14 and 16 footers. He would love to get more as they make good rentals - a sit on top that's easy to repair. Kirk On Monday, November 07, 2011 9:04 PM, "MATT MARINER BROZE" <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com> wrote: > > I have not looked for a couple of years... but did find one boat that was > at > one time being made on the east coast, out of fiberglass... and designed > by a > marine boat architect, whose name I don't recall. They may have been the > exact boat I experienced once on Bodega Bay. > > As far as I can tell... those fiberglass boats are out of production, and > the > designer moved on the sailboats or some other boat designing......<<<<< > > > Michael, I think you were describing the HOPonTOP kayak designed by Naval > Architect (who was already a sailboat designer, having something to do > with an > America's Cup boat, before designing the HOPonTOP) Paul Cronin. -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If I were to dive out of a kayak in a serious boat that could handle ocean conditions and paddle efficiently, I'd look at Kazkasi kayaks out of S. Africa and imported to Florida. http://kaskazi.co.za/kayaks/index.shtml They make a number of fiberglass SOT's. including a diving/fishing one called Dorado II which has a tank well and a large storage compartment accessed by a hatch located between the lower legs. It is just under 16ft. and about 25in wide. Another promising boat is Paddleyak's Kingfisher. I looks good with a fine entry topped by a mild bow foil, a bit like a lifeguard spec surfski. Wouldn't you know it's another S. African boat. The back has a well designed to fit a cooler or fishing crate, so it may not be good for diving tanks. There are very few fiberglass SOTs outside of surfskis. Hop-on-Top turned into Heritage Kayaks, which I believe was later sold. They discontinued fiberglass kayaks, making a plastic version of their 16 ft. Nomad. They eventually dropped this model. We have the fiberglass Nomad which sits the paddler too high and has a rear hatch instead of a tank well. It's actually quite good in the ocean and surf as long as one is not in high winds. A plastic one to consider is RTM's Midway. RTM is a French company that bought the molds from Ocean Kayak who made the most popular fishing/diving SOT's for years. I have RTM's Disco which is a few inches shorter than the Midway and has a lot of rocker. I've taken it the ocean off Oregon and actually had no problem keeping up with people in longer British style fiberglass boats. It's a mystery to me how this can be so fast. The Midway has a different underwater profile with sharp rales rather than rounded with some V profiling. It's a little small to dive from, so I think the Midway would be better. Bill O'Brien Corvallis, OR On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Michael Orchard <mspadorchard_at_comcast.net>wrote: > Main point: > > Is there an ideal diving kayak. One that is light wt, has a seaworthy > hull, sit on top boat, efficient to paddle and move through the water, and > has space to store the usual judicious amount of necessary gear: tanks, wt > belts, regulator, an anchor system, bc device, etc. Plastic tub style > boats don't cut it... and are really not all that interesting, or fun to > paddle imho. > > Background of my interest: > > In the old days... ie early 70s, I used to dive with an inner tube, and > use one tank in a day, and mostly snorkeling to assure the best use of that > tank. > > I did come across two fellow divers who had fiberglass sots with all the > above, and were quite good in the water... but I have yet so see something > like that for sale anyway, esp now that I have an interest in buying such a > product. > > After eventually putting diving aside due to costs and time issue, I > eventually started paddling... ww, then sea kayaks... and now, esp since I > have two boys who are interested in diving... would like to find a way to > combine the two interests, and slowing getting my boys interesting in > paddling as they dive... since the have not gotten the bug of sea paddling. > I suspect a dual purpose boat would reallly snag them... and eventually > turn them into paddlers, while making diving more interesting to them, and > me. (I am not really all the interested in diving anymore.... but would do > it with my boys.) > > Thanks... > > Mike Orchard > Vancouver, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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