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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 10:05:11 -0500
Okay I'm not tuned into the starter market.  I've gotten a request from
a friend for a kid/car friendly starter boat.   

The person has easy access to fresh water, and may be able to keep the
boat(s) lake side.

Does anyone have a suggestion for starter boats - sit on tops are good
candidates.   The ocean is a 25 minute drive, and they are likely to
expand into open water.

I expect this to be the usual 1 to 2 hours at a time paddler.

He initially asked about a boat with a 31" beam - which just sent
shudders of dread through my system....

thanks,
Kirk
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: <Nole4ever_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 10:31:33 -0500 (EST)
kirt......
 
i live in florida, i have 4 ... yes, 4 sit-on-tops..... one tandem -  
wilderness (tarpon 130) 
one fishing - perception 14 feet, and two causal boats Native, Manta Ray's  
14 feet... the tandem  is 30 inches wide, the others are all 24....
all have advantages (and dis-advantages) .... i would be more than willing  
to discuss both... but... a couple of questions.... where and by that i 
mean  what state ... you say a SOT is a
candidate, but in most other states both air and water temps would make  
that uncomfortable for some
part of the year .....
so if you wish to contact me off the paddlewise list.... we won't bore  
everybody else with our "chatter"
 
steve
 
 
In a message dated 12/2/2011 10:06:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
kork4_at_cluemail.com writes:

Okay I'm  not tuned into the starter market.  I've gotten a request from
a  friend for a kid/car friendly starter boat.   

The person has  easy access to fresh water, and may be able to keep the
boat(s) lake  side.

Does anyone have a suggestion for starter boats - sit on tops are  good
candidates.   The ocean is a 25 minute drive, and they are  likely to
expand into open water.

I expect this to be the usual 1 to  2 hours at a time paddler.

He initially asked about a boat with a 31"  beam - which just sent
shudders of dread through my  system....

thanks,
Kirk
-- 
Kirk  Olsen
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 09:00:27 -0800
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:31 AM, <Nole4ever_at_aol.com> wrote:

>
> so if you wish to contact me off the paddlewise list.... we won't bore
> everybody else with our "chatter"
>
> Most of us face questions of this sort and, since the list is comatose for
long periods of time now, I think it would be nice to see the exchanges.
This way the rest of us will benefit from your experiences. So I encourage
you to keep the discussion on the list, please. :)

Craig
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From: Jackie Myers <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 09:26:25 -0800
I completely agree with Craig.   Besides, folks can filter the subject 
if they are "bored" with all that "chatter" :)

A sit-on-top was my first boat and I have fond memories of that kayak 
(though I understand Kirk's shudder at a 31" beam). 

Kirk, how old is/are the kid/kids?

Jackie

>  
>
>>so if you wish to contact me off the paddlewise list.... we won't bore
>>everybody else with our "chatter"
>>
>>    
>>
<>
Most of us face questions of this sort and, since the list is comatose for
long periods of time now, I think it would be nice to see the exchanges.
This way the rest of us will benefit from your experiences. So I encourage
you to keep the discussion on the list, please. :)

Craig
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From: Carey Parks <carey_at_jimparksfamily.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 13:40:04 -0500
I've fielded this question from time to time, and pretty much resort
to borrowing/renting until the person has developed enough experience
to have their own opinion.

As we know, all boats are a trade-off, which means the paddler will
have to put up with some unpleasant (?) characteristics in exchange
for others deemed more valuable. What are they willing to put up with,
and in exchange for what? I fear projecting my values on the other
person may not be a wise long term strategy. "That darn Carey made me
buy this stupid boat!"

So, my approach has been to find the least expensive, most convenient
rental location - a place where we can paddle away from - and just let
them paddle around acting as lifeguard and maybe tossing in a little
forward stroke advice. But not so much as they are thinking too hard
and not enjoying being on the water.

Whenever I can I will glide past with apparent ease, and spin the boat
around to chat with them etc. demonstrating without saying anything
that paddling can be a lot more fun than they are having in that rec
boat with a heavy paddle.

As they ask questions I point out the reasons for my gear choices.
Then the next paddle is from a quality outfitter with new, high class
gear. After this outing they are ready to start thinking about what
they want the kayak for, and why this or that matters.

This approach may not be as useful when parents ask about a boat for
their kids, but in that case positive flotation and other safety
features come top of the list. Maybe a boat that is hard to paddle far
from home is the right choice. Again, not my call, I can only answer
specific small questions, not the big one "Which boat should I get?"

Paddle safe,

Carey

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Jackie Myers <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com> wrote:
>
> I completely agree with Craig.   Besides, folks can filter the subject
> if they are "bored" with all that "chatter" :)
>
> A sit-on-top was my first boat and I have fond memories of that kayak
> (though I understand Kirk's shudder at a 31" beam).
>
> Kirk, how old is/are the kid/kids?
>
> Jackie
>
> >
> >
> >>so if you wish to contact me off the paddlewise list.... we won't bore
> >>everybody else with our "chatter"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> <>
> Most of us face questions of this sort and, since the list is comatose for
> long periods of time now, I think it would be nice to see the exchanges.
> This way the rest of us will benefit from your experiences. So I encourage
> you to keep the discussion on the list, please. :)
>
> Craig




--
http://parkswhistles.com/
http://www.facebook.com/carey.parks
http://twitter.com/LuthierCarey
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:39:27 -0500
As for the kid's ages the oldest or middle child is 11.  They
live on a private school campus, which is located on a good sized
lake (human powered boating is allowed but not swimming - it's a
reservoir and in these parts reservoirs can be tough to get
access to).

The grandmother is looking to buy a christmas present.  The
family is on the daring side, they recently moved back to the US
from Thailand.

Keeping the kids in mind my rough spec's would be for an 11' by
22" boat, with a decently low seat, and boat weight under 45
pounds....

For those who haven't been overwhelmed by my posts in the past
I'm a SOT fan, I consider a surf ski a high end SOT.
As a New Englander who paddles year round I've got a wee bit of
experience with garment choices, so I can cover that ad nauseum.

My default idea is to send him to New England small craft (15
miles from here), but I like to have some hints of good versus
bad in what's currently available for entry level.

Kirk


On Friday, December 02, 2011 9:26 AM, "Jackie Myers"
<jackie_at_muddypuppies.com> wrote:

I completely agree with Craig.   Besides, folks can filter the
subject if they are "bored" with all that "chatter" :)
A sit-on-top was my first boat and I have fond memories of that
kayak (though I understand Kirk's shudder at a 31" beam).
Kirk, how old is/are the kid/kids?
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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From: <Nole4ever_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:08:51 -0500 (EST)
craig....
 
of course you are right.....  will do......
 
steve
 
 
In a message dated 12/2/2011 12:00:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
crjungers_at_gmail.com writes:

On Fri,  Dec 2, 2011 at 7:31 AM, <_Nole4ever_at_aol.com_ 
(mailto:Nole4ever_at_aol.com) > wrote:


so if you wish to contact me off the paddlewise  list.... we won't bore
everybody else with our  "chatter"


Most of us face questions of this sort and, since the list is comatose  for 
long periods of time now, I think it would be nice to see the exchanges.  
This way the rest of us will benefit from your experiences. So I encourage 
you  to keep the discussion on the list, please. :)

Craig  
***************************************************************************
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 11:45:10 -0800
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com> wrote:

> Okay I'm not tuned into the starter market.  I've gotten a request from
> a friend for a kid/car friendly starter boat.
>


Although maybe not exactly pertinent to the question here is what I do with
a new paddler. I have an 11-foot Loon with a completely open cockpit that
tracks pretty straight so I put newbie adults into that first with a cheap
paddle.

With children under ten the Loon is too directionally stable (they can't
make it turn) so I put them in one of the SOF boats with a GP. I used to
use the Mariner Coaster but since that's gone I now use the F-1. The
combination of light weight and good stability makes this a perfect boat
for kids. The GP is the lightest paddle I have (next to the Lightning which
I am not going to let a newbie use) and it has the least wind resistance.
Kids can easily handle the GP. It just comes naturally to them. I had an
8-year-old girl chasing ducks in the F-1 and the GP a couple of years ago.

There is no need to move the kids to any other boat. They could use the F-1
all their lives if they wanted. But adults are different. The next boat I
let them paddle is the Nimbus Telkwa which is stable but maneuverable and,
best of all, looks like a real expedition kayak. Big cockpit, good seating,
extremely stable.

Then I let adults try the Mariner Express without trying to explain the
moving seat. The Express has no rudder, is narrow enough to give new
paddlers the sense of performance without feeling "tippy". This is when I
start to teach them about edging and bracing.

After that they're on their own. They'll have paddled enough to be able to
choose a boat that fits what they want. And, of course, that won't be the
right boat but it will be a start. :D

I like the Loon for kids a lot. They're cheap to buy ($200 on craigslist
all over the place), comfortable to sit in, easy to paddle, and light
enough to put on top of a car.

Craig
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 11:47:41 -0800
I meant to say that I like the Loon for newbies a lot. For kids over ten
it's good, too. But they are difficult for younger kids to maneuver.

Craig
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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] suggestion for a first boat?
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:05:06 -0800
For a sit-in kayak I'd suggest a Wilderness Systems Tsunami 120 or 140
(without a rudder--as they don't need one). They are among the very few
recreational kayaks that I think paddle worth a damn. They are also very good
handling in difficult conditions of wind and waves and surf quite well too.
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