Re: [Paddlewise] not a good morning

This is why we should all have waterfront property...

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:02 PM, "Jack Martin" <jcmartin43_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It’s been a long time since I was a regular Paddlewiser, so I may not be getting my responses transmitted beyond the gents on this distro, but, for what it’s worth, I’d suggest that a bow tie down has a purpose greater than to keep the kayak secure on the rack during highway driving.  If my earlier post gets transmitted, my experience with the F350 turning my Audi A4 Avant into an A3 hatchback is a case in point.  My seven millimeter nylon bow tie down line was shocked so hard that about six inches of it melted with the sudden strain.  But it did hold long enough to keep my CLC North Bay from staying where it had been in the air and going through the windshield and the forehead of the idiot driving the oncoming truck.  So, for what it’s worth, I don’t rig a tie down line just to keep my kayak secure on the drive.  A knot under the hood is common practice, but that wouldn’t have held my kayak from going into the truck when the Thule crossbars failed.  (Thule was not interested in seeing the leftovers because what I described couldn’t have happened, and Audi said that the driver’s seat that came off its rails was incapable of doing that, and they all passed on seeing the corpse of my beautiful silver Avant.)
>  
> So I guess it’s about what a tie down line is supposed to protect us from: failure of a rack component, or too-fast F350s.  I know where my bet is.
>  
> Joq Martin
>  
> From: Bill O'Brien [mailto:obrien.murphy_at_gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:07 PM
> To: marksanders
> Cc: Jack Martin; Jim Tynan; Dave Kruger; Paddlewise
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] not a good morning
>  
> I carry kayaks up to a 21 ft. double and a 21 ft. surfski, a  Zeplin.  I usually carry it on our Prius.  I was concerned by the short span between bars with the typical rack system so I went with Yakima's roof track system.  I can put up the bars in 1 minute and it looks very secure.  The track was mounted with numerous screws on each side and gives a significantly longer span between bars.  I use a loop of 1" tubular webbing tied with a bulky knot that I close the hood over with the knot behind the latch, which is surrounded by the loop.  This is what I tie the bow line off to, very secure and I don't have to slide under the car to attach it.  
>  
> I often use a loop of heavy bungee encased in 1" tubular webbing up to, but not including the knot.  I stretch this over the up-side-down hull and over the end of the bar.  On the Zeplin, I hook the hood of the boat over the bar, strap the front securely, use the bungee over the back bar, and use the tie down off the hood loop for the bow line.  The boat doesn't move around at highway speeds passing semi's with the gusts off the truck.  I also use a friction knot on the bow line; I prefer the Blake's Hitch. On my kayaks, I usually use my bungees front and back and usually don't bother with a bow line for boats 14 ft. and under.  Kayaks often catch less air up-side-down, especially my highly rockered ones.
>  
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:34 AM, marksanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net> wrote:
> As long as they had an arm out the window to make sure it didn't blow off!
>  
>  
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>  
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jack Martin
> Date:09/15/2014 9:48 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: 'Jim Tynan' , 'Dave Kruger' , 'Paddlewise'
> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] not a good morning
>  
> Well, no, not to the blade, exactly.  He had it tied to the shaft that comes out of the motor that’s attached to the glass!   Much more secure that way!
>  
> Yup, just like the people travelling the Washington Beltway with the two mattresses on the roof held down with Ikea filament twine.  (Saw that last night, but it’s par for the course around here.)
>  
> Joq
>  
> From: Jim Tynan [mailto:kayakbound_at_yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 12:08 PM
> To: 'Jack Martin'; 'Dave Kruger'; 'Paddlewise'
> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] not a good morning
>  
> You gotta be kidding me! To the rear windshield wiper?!?
>  
> From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Jack Martin
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:31
> To: 'Dave Kruger'; 'Paddlewise'
> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] not a good morning
>  
> Ten years ago, I was carrying my Chesapeake Light Craft kit-built North Bay Greenland-style kayak, heading home from work in my Audi A4 Avant (wagon), equipped with factory-installed roof rails and Thule, store-bought crossbars.  (CLC boats are tough, and this particular kayak made of three millimeter okume plywood, when brand newly built, dropped ten feet from my garage ceiling to the concrete floor; damage was some paint compression and fiberglass loss on the boat and a fairly deep, two inch gouge in the concrete – so this was a pretty tough boat, and was designed with a very pointy bow and stern.  Virtually weapons grade!  When the Ford F350 crashed into me at a stoplight, the seven millimeter nylon prusik line accessory cord being used as a bow tie down (fastened to a transport/towing hook in the bumper) melted with the impact, but held long enough so that the North Bay did not initially come loose and travel back through the windscreen of the Ford and through the idiot-driver’s forehead.  The A4 was toast, having been turned into an A3 hatchback, the driver’s seat was broken off the floor rails, and the impact precipitated an avalanche of plague in my left coronary artery that almost killed me.  But the North Bay is still as pretty as it ever was, and the F350 driver’s life was saved by virtue of bow and stern tie downs.
>  
> Other than that, no real reason to use tie downs – fastened to structure and not to the rear windscreen wiper that I saw last weekend – except to save lives and kayaks and Prius roofs.
>  
> Joq Martin
>  
> From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Dave Kruger
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:02 AM
> To: Paddlewise
> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] not a good morning
>  
> Several years ago, Dan Millsip, of West Coast Paddler lost two boats when the factory installed roof rack tracks ripped out of the roof of his minivan,  at speed, outside of Vancouver, BC.  Some damage to boats, no injuries or damage to other vehicles or people despite traffic.  The culprit?  No bow or stern ties.  He reported this on WCP.  Thereupon ensued a raging debate about the need for  bow and stern ties, with about the same content as this discussion.
>  
> Likewise, I was a passenger eying my buddies' surfboards popsicle sticking through the air after they left the roof of a sedan barreling down Hwy 101, near San Diego, circa 1960.  No injuries to other vehicles or people,  just rail dings and a skegectomy.  They went surfing anyway.
>  
> List serve filters prevent me from using the pungent language this idiocy deserves:  get the bow and stern anchored with freaking ties, gol darn it!  
>  
> Good fortune seems rampant in these descriptions, inasmuch no one has reported injuries to people in following vehicles.  Or, maybe ... paddlers whose flying boats decapitated someone, or punched a hole in someone's chest are too shy to speak up ... on the sage advice of their attorneys, of course.  ;)
>  
> --
> Dave Kruger
> Astoria, OR
>  
> 
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