Re: [Paddlewise] Paddling Group Dynamics

John wrote (snip)>
>Diane's experience is worth analysing. I hope she will not take this in the
>wrong light. I assume she wrote about he experience as an object lesson an
>does not object to us dissecting the events.

No problem.  I need to learn lots!
>
>Should Brian have been paddling when he was progressively getting sicker?

I paddled when I was really sick on a trip in Johnstone Strait and it
caused a huge amount of trouble for one of my companions. What I'm  coming
to is, if I wouldn't run, then I shouldn't paddle.  I tend to back out on
running fairly early in feeling ill or weak and don't go back till I feel
really strong.

Brian showed no sign of fatigue or low energy, in his defense, and I think
of the three of us, he was the most prudent in cutting short the day's
activities when he began to feel whatever he was getting, hitting  more
strongly. We should have gone with him.

(snip)
>Should they have separated when he was sick?

I should have accompanied him since he was getting sicker. I guess this is
part o something I have a lot of trouble with in my character, which is to
assume "the man" will be fine. Would I have gone to Vernacci with Brian if
he was a female friend? This is really unsettling territory to explore and
I feel pretty bad about it.  I think if it had been a strong female paddler
who wanted to depart, under the conditions at the time I would have let her
go too.It was such easy paddling conditions and only 40 minutes to the
island.

Now, I would not separate. I would go with the person who was leaving
because of illness, man, woman, silkie ;)  whatever. I sure make some
selfish assumptions sometimes.  Aaarggh.
>
>
> >Brian left us, (SNIP)
> >I was tired by this time
>as well and wanted to begin the passage across to Vernacci.
>
>Should they have persisted even thought they were getting tired? Why did
>they wait until they were tired to decide to go home?

Lack of knowledge of local conditions, partly, and general poor judgment
for the rest, I guess.
>

>Does one have any obligation to a person who deliberatly persists in doing
>something dangerous?

I wonder if she would have persisted if I had said, I'm going to Vernacci
now. You shouldn't go in there. I want you to come with me. And proceeded
to leave.
>
>> She said she had been unable to get out of the lagoon (surprise) but
>finally struggled
>through 30 minutes or so before slack, followed by the canoe. She did not
>see me right away and assumed I had left witout her. Her arms were jello,
>she said.  (SNIP)
>Plus, one of the books on the area says, *do not* attempt
>to go in or out except at slack water.  I had shared this with her before
>she went in but she didn't take it seriously.
>
>See above and why didn't they heed expert advice?

Well, I did. I didn't go in. I actually do believe what I read in paddling
guides and I'm glad I do! I think Trish believed, as she tends to when
running, that she can find that extra push and come through somehow with
mind over body.  She has side lined herself several times with that
attitude though.
>
>>We paddled out of the small bay and  began the crossing to Vernacci.  I
>saw
>immediately to my great dismay that instead of the typical wind drop in
>early evening which results in usually calm pleasant evening paddling
>conditions, the wind had continued to pick up and was crossing the seas
>which were building behind us, resulting in big slop.
>
> The weather doesn't just spring up out of nowhere. Why weren't the aware
>of an unusual weather pattern?

The VCKC is ofering a marine meteorology course in March. I've been
coasting on paddling partners' knowledge and skill for too long.
>
> >Neither one of us liked this at the outset but we pushed out and got into
>it.   After
>about 15 minutes, I realized that I was afraid.
>
>Keep in mind they were already tired. Why did they persist?

 Looking back, that is a good question.  I was wondering if Brian would ge
woried and come out after us, so thought we had better get back to our
site. We could have stayed at Nootka, I'm sure.
>
>>Largish breaking following
>seas and lots of wind and slop is my least favorite of paddling conditions.
>My fear was multiplied because I felt responsible for Trish, who was
>understandably  more frightened than I was. (SNIP)
>
>Note the word "responsible". Why? Should she have forcibly detained Trish?

Hah! I'd need more duct tape than I had with me ;)
>
(snip)
>They are in well over their heads now and worst of all haven't the skill to
>extricate themselves by turning back.

This was really apparent. Very irresponsible.
>
> >After calming down we got back in our boats and I took us over to the lee
>of a smaller island and around the northerly point. We poked our bows out
>into Fidalgo Passage which was still ugly. (SNIP)
>
>Why did they try again after the previous experience?
>
>
>>Although Trish wanted to try to paddle on, (SNIP)
>
>Any comments on Trish as a traveling partner here.

Next time I'm bringing several rolls of duct tape, and we'll have a long
talk before the trip about prudence. And I won't be so apprehensive about
someone else's opinion of me.

(snip)
>Think about this for a moment. What would you have done? What is more
>important, your life or companionship for Trish?

Uh...anyone read "Codependent No More"?  ;) These discussion are forcing me
to look at residues of my own people pleasing behaviour. The dangers of
that mindset really are highlighted in the settings we are considering.
>
(snip)>
>Here is this nice handy lodge and we have two tired inexperiecned paddles
>and deteriorating conditions. What would you do?

I know wht I'd do, now.

(snip)
>
>I would say this is a good example of a dysfunctional group. (snip)

Yes, I think we have a lot to work out in terms of realistically assessing
skill levels and forming  agreed upon procedures that we won't argue about
when the time comes to implement them, like staying together...I donknow if
this group will actualy paddle together again. Brian has gone on to buy a
surf boat and is gaining confidence with more gnarly conditions than I can
handle. I need to gain confidence and skill and thus feel less dependent on
others. Which will be a big relief to the "others" I'm sure.
>
>Suppose we take each incident separated here and see how each of us would
>have responded both to the isolated incident and the entire episode.
>.

It's intersting to examine the dynamics from a distance and through other
people's eyes. Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Diane, not ready to join the Tsunami Rangers




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